Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 41

Thread: small stainless weld help

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    small stainless weld help

    What am I doing wrong on this weld. Stainless with 98/2co2, yes it is on wood because I use that to prevent contamination. I do all my wire brushing on plywood on the table.
    Tried pulsed spray for the first time on this and looks like I don't have it dialed in all the way yet.


    Name:  IMG_4621.jpg
Views: 288
Size:  210.5 KB

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    6,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    I see a rod welded to a washer in the picture. Is that not what you were trying to do? If that is what you were trying to do, what is wrong that you see with those welds, or what? Not exactly sure why you're asking what you're doing wrong.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    I see a rod welded to a washer in the picture. Is that not what you were trying to do? If that is what you were trying to do, what is wrong that you see with those welds, or what? Not exactly sure why you're asking what you're doing wrong.
    the little beads look kind of hanky with the folds in there, I did not think that looks right.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Under a Rock
    Posts
    7,060
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Judging from the BBs I reckon This is Mig??

    It does have a strange look to it, but it looks like good penetration.

    Is that silver spray paint or just the picture?

    What exactly are you Making or repairing?
    Miller 211
    Hypertherm PM 45
    1961 Lincoln Idealarc 250
    HTP 221


    True Wisdom only comes from Pain.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2019
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    593
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Trimix wasn't used which would account for the discoloration

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Mount Tabor VT
    Posts
    8,971
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by rjgogo View Post
    What am I doing wrong on this weld. Stainless with 98/2co2, yes it is on wood because I use that to prevent contamination. I do all my wire brushing on plywood on the table.
    Tried pulsed spray for the first time on this and looks like I don't have it dialed in all the way yet.


    Name:  IMG_4621.jpg
Views: 288
Size:  210.5 KB
    Stainless MIG needs tri mix gas one side to weld, other side needs argon shielding. The discoloration, I'd guess was wrong gas, and/or wrong filler. At risk of sounding too much like someone else, TIG would be the better process.
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  7. Likes robocow liked this post
  8. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    7,750
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    I agree 👍
    Something are just easier with TIG.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Stainless MIG needs tri mix gas one side to weld, other side needs argon shielding. The discoloration, I'd guess was wrong gas, and/or wrong filler. At risk of sounding too much like someone else, TIG would be the better process.

  9. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    6,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by rjgogo View Post
    the little beads look kind of hanky with the folds in there, I did not think that looks right.
    I think you're getting those because those look like they're just big "extended" tack welds, and not very long beads.

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    Stainless MIG needs tri mix gas one side to weld....
    For pulsed-MIG, as the OP mentioned, 98/2 Argon/CO₂ can be used in place of tri-mix.

    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  10. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,175
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    They are tack welds and look to be pretty hot so you're going to get a bigger crater. The finish on the washer may be contributing to the odd looking craters.

  11. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    24
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Doesn't the wood get hot/smoke, as the smoke could be interfering with your shielding gas??

  12. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    7,750
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Great looking chart on welding gas

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    I think you're getting those because those look like they're just big "extended" tack welds, and not very long beads.



    For pulsed-MIG, as the OP mentioned, 98/2 Argon/CO₂ can be used in place of tri-mix.


  13. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by John T View Post
    Judging from the BBs I reckon This is Mig??

    It does have a strange look to it, but it looks like good penetration.

    Is that silver spray paint or just the picture?

    What exactly are you Making or repairing?
    Yes, mig, with 98/2 co2 on stainless, no paint.

  14. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by Woznme View Post
    Trimix wasn't used which would account for the discoloration
    Trying to get out of try mix as it is super expensive and super hard to find.

  15. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    38
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Don't know much about MIG stainless, but if it were TIG stainless I'd say your torch gas was set wrong, you had a cross breeze in the weld zone and/or the lack of weld prep on the washer is your root cause of the crusty weld. I'd suspect the lack of prep to be the main cause.

    Heavy contamination makes the weld puddle form a gross "skin" and when it solidifies you end up with something that looks like a pie crust.

    Were you welding on the wood or just using it as a buffer for the mild steel weld table? Wood does absorb moisture so if you're welding on it, you might be boiled that moisture out and into your weld zone?

  16. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by smithdoor View Post
    I agree 👍
    Something are just easier with TIG.

    Dave

    I could TIG them and they would look better but the time is a problem, This is part of something bigger and it is essentially a 1/4 stainless rod on a 2 inch washer. They reason I don't want to Tig is is I make over 1000 of these a year and cost is a very big factor. I can mig them in seconds or tig in minutes each. Days vs hours.

    I am moving from a 20 year old Millermatic 175 to a newer 255. Oddly I can sell my old unit for not that much less than I paid for it. I have zero experience with anything other than what I can do with that little 175. So pulsed mig and spray are totally new to me so I am trying to learn the differences.

    Im no expert at all, my formal welding education consisted of watching the old blacksmith in town make thing, and learning stick in High school 40 years ago. I picked up short circuit MIG. Last year I took a class at the local junior college to learn TIG. So the other reason is that I am super slow at it right now. This is all for a side gig for me right now but I enjoy it and would like to expand what I do.

    So sorry for the stupid questions. As for the wood, I only use it to wire brush on so I don't contaminate my stainless wire wheel with carbon steel. If there is a better way I am all ears.

    Thank you all for the responses, Learning a new process and just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. I know it isn't coming apart.

  17. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    [QUOTE=Oscar;8874528]I think you're getting those because those look like they're just big "extended" tack welds, and not very long beads.



    For pulsed-MIG, as the OP mentioned, 98/2 Argon/CO₂ can be used in place of tri-mix.

    thanks for the chart, that is super helpful. Printing it right now. 98/2 is what I have but I still have some trimix left over as well but not a lot. I was also told by miller that I can use the same 98/2 for Mild steel on this unit as well. I think I still need to take some heat out of it.

  18. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by Thoriated Wolfram View Post
    Don't know much about MIG stainless, but if it were TIG stainless I'd say your torch gas was set wrong, you had a cross breeze in the weld zone and/or the lack of weld prep on the washer is your root cause of the crusty weld. I'd suspect the lack of prep to be the main cause.

    Heavy contamination makes the weld puddle form a gross "skin" and when it solidifies you end up with something that looks like a pie crust.
    I never had to do anything to them with short circuit transfer, I know with TIG it is super important. there probably is some crap on the rod but not much but will take the extra minute to wipe them down.

    I do not weld on the wood, only wire brush.

    Could also be What Oscar has said, they are basically long tacks and maybe I am over thinking things. I just don't know what it is supposed to look like. thanks again for all the help to all.

  19. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    7,750
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    I was think ones and twos
    I would use 308 0.023 wire and mix gas from supplier .
    This is what I use in machine shops for building up shafts.
    It gives a great finish to the shaft after welding.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by rjgogo View Post
    I could TIG them and they would look better but the time is a problem, This is part of something bigger and it is essentially a 1/4 stainless rod on a 2 inch washer. They reason I don't want to Tig is is I make over 1000 of these a year and cost is a very big factor. I can mig them in seconds or tig in minutes each. Days vs hours.

    I am moving from a 20 year old Millermatic 175 to a newer 255. Oddly I can sell my old unit for not that much less than I paid for it. I have zero experience with anything other than what I can do with that little 175. So pulsed mig and spray are totally new to me so I am trying to learn the differences.

    Im no expert at all, my formal welding education consisted of watching the old blacksmith in town make thing, and learning stick in High school 40 years ago. I picked up short circuit MIG. Last year I took a class at the local junior college to learn TIG. So the other reason is that I am super slow at it right now. This is all for a side gig for me right now but I enjoy it and would like to expand what I do.

    So sorry for the stupid questions. As for the wood, I only use it to wire brush on so I don't contaminate my stainless wire wheel with carbon steel. If there is a better way I am all ears.

    Thank you all for the responses, Learning a new process and just want to make sure I am not doing something stupid. I know it isn't coming apart.

  20. #19
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    6,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by rjgogo View Post
    thanks for the chart, that is super helpful. Printing it right now. 98/2 is what I have but I still have some trimix left over as well but not a lot. I was also told by miller that I can use the same 98/2 for Mild steel on this unit as well. I think I still need to take some heat out of it.
    The chart will not help you unless you have an HTP Pro Pulse 300

    I posted it not to reference any kind of rule of thumb, only just to point out how one does not need tri-mix to pulse-MIG stainless, and one can indeed use 98/2 Argon/CO₂. Pulsed-MIG is simply a variant of full-on axial spray transfer. It switches from spray transfer currents/voltage (very high) to lower levels many times per second (the frequency is usually tied to the WFS) to control the deposition & heat so that you are able to get most of the benefits of spray transfer which is deep root fusion/penetration, but at the same time you gain puddle control because the overall heat input is lower leading to a less fluid puddle (compared to spray transfer).

    The same mix can be used for mild steel in spray transfer, but the straight up oxygen content will rob the filler wire of deoxidizers; so unless you have perfectly clean steel, you need those deoxidizers in the filler wire to handle millscale, light rust, etc, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by rjgogo View Post
    Could also be What Oscar has said, they are basically long tacks and maybe I am over thinking things. I just don't know what it is supposed to look like. thanks again for all the help to all.
    I really do think this is it. They're such small/short welds that I don't think you'd even have time to configure your crater-fill/control setting to help any. How many seconds does it take to produce those welds? 1.5? less?
    Last edited by Oscar; 07-20-2022 at 12:18 PM.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  21. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    SoCal-LA
    Posts
    10,166
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by rjgogo View Post
    What am I doing wrong on this weld. Stainless with 98/2co2, yes it is on wood because I use that to prevent contamination. I do all my wire brushing on plywood on the table.
    Tried pulsed spray for the first time on this and looks like I don't have it dialed in all the way yet.


    Name:  IMG_4621.jpg
Views: 288
Size:  210.5 KB
    I usually don't get involved with mig threads but I think you have a good weldment there, and has room for a little improvement. First thing I see is solid penetration and wetting at the toes. If it survives a pull/break test ship it. I also see that you sat on the puddle. I like to start the arc and perform a slight whip, in this case towards the rod. That may reduce the puddle spatter. And with enough hot start and high speed pulse the spatter may go away.

    I am sure you made a fixture to hold your rods in place during welding, so loading the fixture is probably taking more time than the welding. You have the right gas because the limited C02 lets the arc get into spray. With a little more observance and tweaking I think you have a winner.

    And if the customer is happy then carry on. Only thing that would prevent it from optimal performance is the spatter. Try welding in both directions to see what happens.
    Weld like a "WELDOR", not a wel-"DERR"
    MillerDynasty700DX,Dynasty350DX4ea,Dynasty200DX,Li ncolnSW200-2ea.,MillerMatic350P,MillerMatic200w/spoolgun,MKCobraMig260,Lincoln SP-170T,PlasmaCam/Hypertherm1250,HFProTig2ea,MigMax1ea.

  22. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    The chart will not help you unless you have an HTP Pro Pulse 300

    I posted it not to reference any kind of rule of thumb, only just to point out how one does not need tri-mix to pulse-MIG stainless, and one can indeed use 98/2 Argon/CO₂. Pulsed-MIG is simply a variant of full-on axial spray transfer. It switches from spray transfer currents/voltage (very high) to lower levels many times per second (the frequency is usually tied to the WFS) to control the deposition & heat so that you are able to get most of the benefits of spray transfer which is deep root fusion/penetration, but at the same time you gain puddle control because the overall heat input is lower leading to a less fluid puddle (compared to spray transfer).

    The same mix can be used for mild steel in spray transfer, but the straight up oxygen content will rob the filler wire of deoxidizers; so unless you have perfectly clean steel, you need those deoxidizers in the filler wire to handle millscale, light rust, etc, etc.



    I really do think this is it. They're such small/short welds that I don't think you'd even have time to configure your crater-fill/control setting to help any. How many seconds does it take to produce those welds? 1.5? less?
    Gotcha, thank you , and yes, 1.5 seconds or a bit less is likely correct. This is literally about my 4th weld using the new machine so I didn't know yet what I didn't know if that makes sense. I was pounded in over the years to use trimix for stainless and c25 for mild steel. This machine changes almost everything and is kind of like a whole new process. So far I do like it, and the savings on gas will really add up. I finally have a big boy welder outside of my tombstone stick which I used to turn to for everything thick. But mostly doing the small stainless stuff now.

  23. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Laredo, Tx
    Posts
    6,647
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Quote Originally Posted by rjgogo View Post
    Gotcha, thank you , and yes, 1.5 seconds or a bit less is likely correct. This is literally about my 4th weld using the new machine so I didn't know yet what I didn't know if that makes sense. I was pounded in over the years to use trimix for stainless and c25 for mild steel. This machine changes almost everything and is kind of like a whole new process. So far I do like it, and the savings on gas will really add up. I finally have a big boy welder outside of my tombstone stick which I used to turn to for everything thick. But mostly doing the small stainless stuff now.
    If the 98/2 mix is saving you $$$ vs tri-mix, then by all means continue using it! Depending how far you want to take it, you can save a lot of gas if you control the rush of gas on the initial "puff" when you pull the trigger. Unless you have a low-pressure 25psi flowmeter/regulator, the high 50psi setting of most regulators cause a waste of gas because too much is stored in the hose, and when you pull the trigger, it releases more gas than is necessary. I added a [thoroughly clean out] air pressure regulator at the back of my TIG so I can reduce the pressure and minimize the gas-wasting puff each time the gas solenoid opens. This lets me adjust the rate that the flowrate shoots up, so I give it enough so that it gets to the rate quickly, but without over-shooting and wasting gas. When you're doing a lot of these short welds back-to-back-to-back, each time it happens will start to add up quite a bit, IMO.







    I use the same thing on my MIGs.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



  24. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Thanks, I have been meaning to build a jig and have the materials just have not found time yet. For now, the fixture to hold the rod is my gloved left hand while I mig with the right. I can lineup about 8 of them at once on my table. I know it is not ideal. I will try the other direction as well. I make these for an artist that uses them as a base material to add their media and art which sits outside. I prefer the stainless as I have some instances that have been out there for many years with zero corrosion, powder coated steel just does not hold up. I will work on my technique and try your suggestions. I have had zero complaints about the short circuit process that I was using so this should be as good or better. it is a pretty cheap part but it is required to make the finished goods. Can't really say what it is because it is not mine to promote. I just make the little part. thank you.

  25. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    IL
    Posts
    28
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    Thanks, that sounds like a good idea, I just noticed the preflow that comes out, that did not happen with my old machine. I do a million short bursts so you are right. It seems all the small independent gas suppliers are all being bought out by Airgas and Linde, They don't seem to cater to folks like me. They only want to rent super large tanks and fill ups are a few hundred for trimix if I can find it. I can't afford the rent like someone that goes through 10 bottles a month. I keep finding new suppliers and they keep getting bought out. My trimix suppler just got bought and all the rules changed. So I broke down and got a new machine that can use other gas. Big expense but the features are night and day better.

    thank you again for the assistance.

  26. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    NW New Jersey
    Posts
    1,170
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: small stainless weld help

    My last tri mix from Praxair cost $78 for an 125 cu ft cylinder. That was about 4 months ago. I go through period where a tank will last a week, or sometimes a year. I would think you could get at least a thousand of those welds out of a 125cuft tank. TIG machines often have more PreFlow/PostFlow controls than MIG machines, so a different regulator might be an option. Better regulators use less gas, so it might be a worthy investment if you have gas cost concerns. Seems like you have the ability to change the weld process as needed, and that it isn't structural in nature. The process you have now is probably pretty close, fixturing will help speed it up too. Maybe you can make a hinged cover from aluminum that would protect the washer from spatter, soot, etc. Do you passivate you parts . That usually prevents corrosion if the part is exposed to the weather, if it necessary aesthetically. You mention the get covered up so it might not be a concern on this project. At a minimum a small aluminum cover will leave less no bb's, and just a needing a touch up on a scotch brite wheel would be the only clean up need, and will look polished.

    What sizes are your material, what type of stainless, what wire are you using. I'm not sure you had to buy a MM255 to accomplish this, but it certainly is a more capable machine(maybe I should tell my boss I need a new machine next time he see's me using my 1987 Snap-On MIG machine . Do they have any PreFlow/PostFlow controls on a MM255 ? There are some gas shielded flux core wire, but its hard to come by .035" in 10lb rolls (then it becomes more expensive than the gas, and needs more time cleaning off flux).

    Good luck

    Name:  Fixturestainless.png
Views: 140
Size:  13.7 KB
    Last edited by albrightree; 07-21-2022 at 10:32 AM.
    Airco 250 ac/dc Heliwelder Square wave
    Miller Synchrowave 180 sd
    Miller Econo Twin HF
    Lincoln 210 MP
    Dayton 225 ac/dc
    Victor torches
    Snap-On YA-212
    Lotos Cut60D
    Primeweld 225 ac/dc
    Primeweld mig180
    Miller AEAD-200

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,664,183,475.00019 seconds with 13 queries