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Thread: Trouble with Titanium MIG

  1. #1
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    Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Hello,

    I am new to the forum. I did post in the new member forum. I am a hobbyist welder working on automotive projects - sheet metal, frames, axle housings. I am not a pro by any means, but I have a moderate amount of experience.

    7 months ago I upgraded(?) to a Titanium Multi Process welder from Harbor Freight. It is currently setup with 0.025 wire, 75/25 gas, and 120V. I had the welder dialed in to where I liked it for 18 gauge sheet metal, but now I am having an absolutely terrible time with burn back. Every single time I pull the trigger, the wire burns back. It is completely unusable.

    This issue started after I welded thicker material with 0.035" wire. I had no issues welding the thicker material, but after I swapped back to the 0.025" wire/settings, I started having this issue.

    These are things I've tried:
    -Gone back to chart recommendations for sheet metal
    -Gone to extreme ends of each: wire speed, voltage, inductance
    -Went through the spool setup procedure. Wire feeds well.
    -Checked all connections.
    -2000psi, 25 CFM
    -Tried a 0.030 tip w/ 0.025 wire
    -Disassembled torch, inspected and cleaned everything

    I have no idea what else to do. In the middle of some big projects and this is very frustrating. I would appreciate any advice.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by Locust; 08-01-2022 at 11:13 AM.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    To correct my initial post: It was 0.030" that I had swapped to temporarily for the thicker material (not 0.035 like I originally said, can't seem to find edit button).

    I just now swapped to 0.030" again to see what would happen. I can weld without burnback, but 0.030" is not ideal for my project. I am working with 18 and 16 gauge material. Hell, I should have stuck with my flux core. I'm sure I can dial it in a little better, but I would like to go back to the 0.025.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    I dont know the specifics of this machine but I bet someone comes along soon that does. They are selling quite a few.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Obviously depending on several things so this is a generalization but 18 and 16 well within the parameters of 030 to get past a job while you fuss with the machine. I got a Lincoln 255 acts the same way, bump it and runs different.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    It is usually feed too slow or welding up too close.

    Aside from that a feed issue maybe too much spool tension or wire not tight enough in feeder.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    did you change the drive rollers back to the proper set for the 0.025 wire? Burnback like that sounds like the wire is slipping.
    Miller Multimatic 255

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Thanks for the responses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    did you change the drive rollers back to the proper set for the 0.025 wire? Burnback like that sounds like the wire is slipping.
    Yes, I do have the roller installed correctly for the wire. It is feeding well.

    It is usually feed too slow or welding up too close.

    Aside from that a feed issue maybe too much spool tension or wire not tight enough in feeder.
    I have played around with the feed and the tension on the wire without success.

    When I first got the welder 7 months ago I had to spend some time adjusting the feed (the chart has it way too low in my opinion) so I am familiar with how it is "supposed" to react. It just doesn't anymore.

    Many times since I've had this welder I have been too close or far from the material at times, resulting in burn back or welding the tip. But it used to be that I would simply pull the wire out and move on, no problem. Now it just doesn't give a crap how far/close I am, it burns back every time.

    Obviously depending on several things so this is a generalization but 18 and 16 well within the parameters of 030 to get past a job while you fuss with the machine. I got a Lincoln 255 acts the same way, bump it and runs different.
    Yeah, I will work on dialing it in. I just have burning through the 18 gauge, and then there's a lot more grinding.

    Funny you should mention about bumping your welder and having it run differently. I have noticed this about my welder. It has always been the case that it will randomly run differently without me ever touching any setting. I'll get more burn back or can't get a weld started. I just have to walk away.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Man listen to these folks th3y know what they are talking about
    Retired Old Guy

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Do you all have recommendations for settings? For either 0.030 or 0.025. I think I will finish my present task at 0.030 because I can at least get somewhere.

    I'm currently welding 16ga patch to 18 gauge sheet metal. Chart suggests:
    Wire feed 145
    Voltage 16.5
    Inductance 3-5
    20-30 CFH

    I have not found the chart to be very useful. I find that the wire speed is way too slow, but maybe I'm wrong. Before this issue I had been running at ~225 for speed.

    Since this issue started, the closest I've come to welding with 0.025 is on a flat piece of 16ga (not making a joint). The "sizzling bacon" sounds like too high of a frequency and it feels like it's trying to burn back. Then sometimes it turns into a mini blow torch.
    Last edited by Locust; 08-01-2022 at 02:56 PM.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Checked polarity ? Wire run-in ? Did any of the gun assembly come loose ? Maybe do a few wire speed checks (count to 6 with trigger pressed, measure multiply by ten) 3 tries should be within an inch of each other. Is the machine still under warranty ? Maybe call the company for Tech support. If the settings worked before the should work again, if not use the support and hold them to the warranty. They will likely ask you some of these same questions, and might better help you as they have a specific list of tests for that machine. They also have a better knowledge of the possible defects specific to that unit. A quick browse through reviews shows a few feed problems, seems like most were resolved by customer service.

    good luck
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Which model Titanium do you have?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    i hate to be the one to say it but when you buy nearly the cheapest welder on the planet you set yourself up for alot of greif. theres a reason why good welders cost 10x more. you can all but bet your life they work perfect everytime
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Pull the nozzle and tip and see if the machine feeds wire. Sounds like a wire feeding issue as Louie suggested with drive rollers. If it welds with .030, I see no reason it shoudn’t be able to weld with .025

    if it feeds ok with out the tip try using a new or different tip.
    Last edited by N2 Welding; 08-01-2022 at 07:36 PM.
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by cornchip View Post
    i hate to be the one to say it but when you buy nearly the cheapest welder on the planet you set yourself up for alot of greif. theres a reason why good welders cost 10x more. you can all but bet your life they work perfect everytime
    That's nonsense. I am not going to say its the best welder in the world, but of the cheap welders it does a good job, and there have been a number of decent reviews compared the cheaper brands found on Amazon for instance. To me, if it welded fine with 0.025 wire, and it welds fine with 0.030 wire, and the only thing that has changed is the wire, then it is most likely in my opinion that in the process of changing from 0.025 wire to 0.030 wire, the OP changed something and didn't change it back when he went back to the smaller wire.
    Miller Multimatic 255

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    That's nonsense. I am not going to say its the best welder in the world, but of the cheap welders it does a good job, and there have been a number of decent reviews compared the cheaper brands found on Amazon for instance. To me, if it welded fine with 0.025 wire, and it welds fine with 0.030 wire, and the only thing that has changed is the wire, then it is most likely in my opinion that in the process of changing from 0.025 wire to 0.030 wire, the OP changed something and didn't change it back when he went back to the smaller wire.
    spot on.
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by N2 Welding View Post
    spot on.
    "Spot on, mate!"

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Thanks again for all of the responses. This afternoon I did about 1 foot of patch panel on 18/16 gauge with 0.030 with no burn back. I did butt welding with spot welds the whole way.

    Checked polarity ? Wire run-in ? Did any of the gun assembly come loose ? Maybe do a few wire speed checks (count to 6 with trigger pressed, measure multiply by ten) 3 tries should be within an inch of each other. Is the machine still under warranty ? Maybe call the company for Tech support. If the settings worked before the should work again, if not use the support and hold them to the warranty. They will likely ask you some of these same questions, and might better help you as they have a specific list of tests for that machine. They also have a better knowledge of the possible defects specific to that unit. A quick browse through reviews shows a few feed problems, seems like most were resolved by customer service.
    Yes, the polarity is correct.

    There is not a run in adjustment on this machine.

    I did your wire feed test with a timer, and it was consistent over 3 tries. However, I did this with 0.030" wire because that is what I am currently set up with. I will certainly try this with the 0.025 wire. I hope to swap back to that later this week. I checked wire tension according to the manual by running wire into a block of wood and seeing if it bends at 2-3", which it does.

    I disassembled the gun and checked tightness of all connections. None were loose.

    Which model Titanium do you have?


    It is the Titanium 200 multi process.

    i hate to be the one to say it but when you buy nearly the cheapest welder on the planet you set yourself up for alot of greif. theres a reason why good welders cost 10x more. you can all but bet your life they work perfect everytime
    Perhaps this is the case. I do not have side by side experience between this and a welder with the same features made by a name brand. But I spent a lot of time reading reviews and agonizing over going with a Harbor Freight welder. I simply could not find any bad reviews on this one or any justification for spending 2X more for a Miller/Lincoln which had all jumped in price by ~50% between 2019 and 2020. I felt like I would have been paying for a name/sticker. If this is a garbage welder, so be it. But I don't see the evidence of that in reviews/forums.

    Pull the nozzle and tip and see if the machine feeds wire. Sounds like a wire feeding issue as Louie suggested with drive rollers. If it welds with .030, I see no reason it shoudn’t be able to weld with .025

    if it feeds ok with out the tip try using a new or different tip.
    It does feed wire without the tip. I have tried new tips but get immediate burn back on the first attempt. However, I have successfully welded this afternoon with 0.030" with no issue. I agree that if it doesn't have issue with 0.030 that I should be able to dial in 0.025.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Locust View Post
    Thanks for the responses.



    Yes, I do have the roller installed correctly for the wire. It is feeding well.



    I have played around with the feed and the tension on the wire without success.

    When I first got the welder 7 months ago I had to spend some time adjusting the feed (the chart has it way too low in my opinion) so I am familiar with how it is "supposed" to react. It just doesn't anymore.

    Many times since I've had this welder I have been too close or far from the material at times, resulting in burn back or welding the tip. But it used to be that I would simply pull the wire out and move on, no problem. Now it just doesn't give a crap how far/close I am, it burns back every time.



    Yeah, I will work on dialing it in. I just have burning through the 18 gauge, and then there's a lot more grinding.



    Funny you should mention about bumping your welder and having it run differently. I have noticed this about my welder. It has always been the case that it will randomly run differently without me ever touching any setting. I'll get more burn back or can't get a weld started. I just have to walk away.



    THAT is what finally prompted me to buy a new HTP MIG, funny thing happened all the weird inconsistencies STOPPED.
    I did have a problem with Si bronze but that was "self inflicted".

    It was not as inexpensive as some others, but I think it was money well spent.

    I do have to agree that if you can get .030 to run nicely something is probably being missed. maybe try a different brand of tips and wire.
    Last edited by 455dan; 08-01-2022 at 11:29 PM.
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    I'd try the .025 wire with a .030 tip! The .025 tips you have might be for .023 or .024. Either way try the next size up aka .030 and see if that solves the proplem. If so it's a feeding issue because of tips.

    Another thing while you are at it with .025 spooled in the machine is to time & measure the wire run out with out a tip installed. Need to know for sure the drive rollers and anything else along the way to the tip is not the problem.

    It's not rocket science but once you understand all the factors that come into play with wire feeding welders, it makes it easier to get to the bottom of what's causing the problems.
    Last edited by N2 Welding; 08-02-2022 at 12:18 AM.
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by Louie1961 View Post
    That's nonsense. I am not going to say its the best welder in the world, but of the cheap welders it does a good job, and there have been a number of decent reviews compared the cheaper brands found on Amazon for instance. To me, if it welded fine with 0.025 wire, and it welds fine with 0.030 wire, and the only thing that has changed is the wire, then it is most likely in my opinion that in the process of changing from 0.025 wire to 0.030 wire, the OP changed something and didn't change it back when he went back to the smaller wire.
    if a guy needs a one time use machine to weld his barn door back on then sure it makes sense but otherwise i think your better off spending a bit more on something you can rely on for years. but thats just my way off thinking. carry on
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by cornchip View Post
    if a guy needs a one time use machine to weld his barn door back on then sure it makes sense but otherwise i think your better off spending a bit more on something you can rely on for years. but thats just my way off thinking. carry on
    What is your contribution to this forum? Do you have how to post's or showed your abilities other than to talk trash about welders because it was purchased at a lower price point. So many things are built in china these days that it makes me sad to think there are no real Americans trying to one up any global welding equipment manufactures. We have the education shops capable of teaching but it seems those places are all infected with simpleton idealism's and changing this world through Plandemic ways of the likes of George Soros and so on. I much prefer George Strait as he's so much easier to listen to and understand the logic in his words.

    Any way back at what you are preaching. Can you afford to buy what you are preaching. If so good for you. For others wanting to learn to do things on a "BUDGET" I see nothing wrong with using a cheap or cost effective product. GTFOH with that $hit! Oh I feel a ban coming. Sorry I call it like I see it!... Thinking of John T at this very moment.
    Last edited by N2 Welding; 08-02-2022 at 01:01 AM.
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  31. #22
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by N2 Welding View Post
    I'd try the .025 wire with a .030 tip! The .025 tips you have might be for .023 or .024. Either way try the next size up aka .030 and see if that solves the proplem. If so it's a feeding issue because of tips.

    Another thing while you are at it with .025 spooled in the machine is to time & measure the wire run out with out a tip installed. Need to know for sure the drive rollers and anything else along the way to the tip is not the problem.

    It's not rocket science but once you understand all the factors that come into play with wire feeding welders, it makes it easier to get to the bottom of what's causing the problems.
    On trying the .030 Tip right but, but re reading his 1st post.




    -Tried a 0.030 tip w/ 0.025 wire
    -Disassembled torch, inspected and cleaned everything
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  32. #23
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by 455dan View Post
    On trying the .030 Tip right but, but re reading his 1st post.




    -Tried a 0.030 tip w/ 0.025 wire
    -Disassembled torch, inspected and cleaned everything
    Quote Originally Posted by Locust View Post
    To correct my initial post: It was 0.030" that I had swapped to temporarily for the thicker material (not 0.035 like I originally said, can't seem to find edit button).

    I just now swapped to 0.030" again to see what would happen. I can weld without burnback, but 0.030" is not ideal for my project. I am working with 18 and 16 gauge material. Hell, I should have stuck with my flux core. I'm sure I can dial it in a little better, but I would like to go back to the 0.025.
    I read it all to make sure I was aware perhaps I missed something and you can shed some light on the subject?
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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    Quote Originally Posted by N2 Welding View Post
    What is your contribution to this forum? Do you have how to post's or showed your abilities other than to talk trash about welders because it was purchased at a lower price point. So many things are built in china these days that it makes me sad to think there are no real Americans trying to one up any global welding equipment manufactures. We have the education shops capable of teaching but it seems those places are all infected with simpleton idealism's and changing this world through Plandemic ways of the likes of George Soros and so on. I much prefer George Strait as he's so much easier to listen to and understand the logic in his words.

    And I was trying to put a lot of weight into "Made in the USA" during my purchasing, but I could find no straight answer on whether comparable welders made by American brands are actually made in the USA. Again, I felt like I would have been paying 2X more for a name. "Made in USA" is important, but I am not a charity and inflation is out of control.

    I read it all to make sure I was aware perhaps I missed something and you can shed some light on the subject?
    I did try an 0.030 tip with the 0.025 wire. And before I had this issue, I did a fair amount of welding like this when I ran out of 0.025 tips.

    I do have to agree that if you can get .030 to run nicely something is probably being missed. maybe try a different brand of tips and wire.
    I just wish I knew what it is that I am missing. My plan is to finish what I am working on now with 0.030 wire, and then go back to 0.025 to see if I can figure it out. Maybe later this week.

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    Re: Trouble with Titanium MIG

    If it was still 2x, this is what is different that 10 years, maybe 15 ago. Import knockoffs were junk and 1/2 the cost, made it a risky bet but now they have got way better even good and are at 20%, some even less. Wish they had this when I was a sprout, everything wass painfully expensive sold only at dealers which was a crap shoot all its own.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-02-2022 at 08:01 AM.

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