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Thread: Get Bent

  1. #51
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    Re: Get Bent

    Name:  transpor27.jpg
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Size:  213.8 KB The fun's not over yet.............. Had to machine some pins for the pulley wheels. Some sorta weird measuring pins.......... .425 diameter. Why .425.................don't ask me.......it's what was on the original thingy that came from the old come alongs(shrug). Some sorta Chinese version of the Metric system?????

    Got fed up, and closed the shop for the day. Drill the cotter key holes tomorrow.

  2. #52
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    Re: Get Bent

    AAAnnnd since the start of this thread one of my customers has cranked out 2100 tons of $300 per ton hay....

  3. #53
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    AAAnnnd since the start of this thread one of my customers has cranked out 2100 tons of $300 per ton hay....
    So, who deserves a medal?? You, or her/him??

  4. #54
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    Re: Get Bent

    Name:  transpor29.jpg
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Size:  241.0 KB Highway legal. 4' from center line of the machine. Other side will be folded without rake wheels. Rake wheels stored on the back of the rake for transport.

    I'd like an over-center fold to keep the balance when tooling down the highway.........but I think this will do.

    The pulleys wound up being 6" from hook to pulley outside diameter. I can't complain. I'm 2" over on total clearance........which can be rectified by moving the front catch points out a few inches. K'kins says it's good to go..........don't waste the time.

    Not in the mood for the particulars.......get to it later.

    Some good suggestions.......I READ THEM. Thanks. YEAH.........................I DO READ THE COMMENTS. Separates the chaff from the wheat.

  5. #55
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    Re: Get Bent

    5 rake wheels weigh 40# apiece.......giving a total weight on the end of the lever of 200#. Add the lever.....about maybe 50# to be generous(the pipe).

    So.......you're looking at around 250# on the long end of the lever. The rake wheels are 4' from the pivoting beam. This takes the torque to 1000#.

    The task, should you accept it..........is to raise the whole mess off the horizontal.

    The lever attached to the main beam is 24" long. This lever has to apply 1000# torque to the beam. Because it's 2' long, it will apply 1000# torque with a 500# force at the end of the lever.

    Now, ya got the cables................................

    The load point has a traveling snatch block. This doubles the pull.

    But...............because the lever is at an angle to the pull(vector)........the best estimate is around 60*...........which magnifies the needed force to move that lever. Conservatively around 1.5 times 500#. Maybe 750# of force to give an actual 500#.

    Travel from the end of the lever, up to the mast.............and you're looking at 2 lines. EAch one applying half the force needed. About 350# apiece.

    Then the booger.................. You're redirecting the force from the winch. About a 90* angle. This adds the required force to move the single line from the load. Maybe about 700# at the corner pull point.

    If I did the math correct..............the winch has to supply about 700# to move the load.

    Dumping all the high fallutin' math in the crapper, where it belongs.....................THE DAMN THING WORKS

    .................................................. ......................................

    I'd say the greatest learning experience is how cable performs under load. IT WILL ALWAYS TRY TO EXERT FORCE IN A STRAIGHT LINE. I don't care if you redirect the pulling force, it will try to exert the pull in a straight line.

    The time spent on the Uranus Swivpull 900 Series snatch blocks, was well worth it.

  6. #56
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    Re: Get Bent

    I luv the f'n stock market. I luv a 2x, and I'd go ballistic at an 8x. I mean...............K'kins would have to wipe the sweat off of my face

    We took an $800 mutt, and turned it into the equivalent of a newer 6K hay rake.

    I'd bee sippin' beech drinx in Bali, if'n my portfolio did that goodName:  yay.gif
Views: 172
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    And.............we're still in the window to make some bodacious round bales in September.

    Speakin' of the window..........................................Name:  transport30.jpg
Views: 180
Size:  214.5 KB Stocked up on the gasses we're gonna need. I try to do the best I can, with what I have. Y'all take care.

  7. #57
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    Re: Get Bent

    I sat out in front of the shop on one of the two stools that I had when I met K'kins.

    I invited her over for a steak dinner. She's said that she thought I was a jerk, but decided to give it a try.

    I had 2 stools set up at the welding table. Had steaks going on the charcoal grill.

    It was the day we started to be what we are today.

    She made me put that stool back in the shop, because my back goes to Hell when I stand for too long in front of the lathe, or milling machine.

    I got the last laugh................I still sit on it, and think about that day over a Century ago. Yeah.........neither of us is getting any younger.

  8. #58
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    I sat out in front of the shop on one of the two stools that I had when I met K'kins.

    I invited her over for a steak dinner. She's said that she thought I was a jerk, but decided to give it a try.

    I had 2 stools set up at the welding table. Had steaks going on the charcoal grill.

    It was the day we started to be what we are today.

    She made me put that stool back in the shop, because my back goes to Hell when I stand for too long in front of the lathe, or milling machine.

    I got the last laugh................I still sit on it, and think about that day over a Century ago. Yeah.........neither of us is getting any younger.
    over a Century ago. ???
    An optimist is usually wrong, and when the unexpected happens is unprepared. A pessimist is usually right, when wrong, is delighted, and well prepared.

  9. #59
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie B View Post
    over a Century ago. ???
    That did sorta sound funny I guess I should have said that the time just evaporated..........life's like that. It goes by fast.

  10. #60
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    Re: Get Bent

    Name:  transport31.jpg
Views: 148
Size:  244.7 KB The swivels cured the rope binding problem. The rope will go where it wants to go. You have to allow for it to direct the force.

    Name:  transport33.jpg
Views: 147
Size:  245.3 KB This is why I was concerned with overall pulley length. The extra combined 2" was really pushing the limit. The round stock that was used for the eye on the load lever goes clear through the tubing. Welded on both sides. I felt that this would spread the load between the two opposing tubing walls, instead of concentrating the load on one wall only.

    Name:  transport32.jpg
Views: 144
Size:  208.3 KB The winch mount probably needs to be limited in its ability to pivot. If the rope spools to one side, or the other, it tends to pull the winch base off line. I've thought of a way to pin it, but that can wait. For now, it's just as easy to make sure you're starting the pull with the rope centralized on the drum. The bolt that adjusts for the upward angle is very handy. The angle changes from one attachment point to the other at the mast. It actually makes a considerable change in the winch angle..............so it needs to be adjusted. Also, I might have to move the winch, mast, or load levers, at some point in the future. So I'll never really know what the required angle might be in a different position........

    3/8 Gr 5 bolts were used for the hook pin, and swivel pin, on the pulley blocks. The swivel pin is well above required tensile strength. The eye pin is what brings the load rating down. Considering shear limitations (about 5000# for this diameter), a further derating of 4x brings the load rating down to around 1200#. This matches the winch rating(1000#), so it's all good.
    Last edited by farmersammm; 08-11-2022 at 11:17 AM.

  11. #61
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    Re: Get Bent

    Did you take shock loading into consideration? Roading teh machine down those rough Oklahoma roads can be destructive! No shocks on a hay rake.

  12. #62
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by cwby View Post
    Did you take shock loading into consideration? Roading teh machine down those rough Oklahoma roads can be destructive! No shocks on a hay rake.
    I sure agree with that. Regardless of all the ciphering that went into this to get it to fold up, one good jerk and something, most likely that winch or cable, is going to go "pow" and that will be that. I'd be figuring a way to pin it in place once I got it into travel position. Some nice 5/8 pins would be the order of the day.

  13. #63
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    Re: Get Bent

    You guys are GOODName:  tkqe4fh-smiley-two-thumbs-up175028_285604.gif
Views: 138
Size:  1.1 KB. Not bein' funny, I mean it.

    Name:  transport34.jpg
Views: 140
Size:  223.8 KB

    It actually has to be pinned in 2 different positions. One with both arms vertical...........and one with both arms at less than vertical.

    Reason being: Only one arm can be raised vertical with the rakes on..........the other has to have the rakes removed to get it vertical. Otherwise the rakes would interfere with each other. Next: I also need to be able to partially raise both arms with the rakes attached to make a creek crossing that's sort of narrow.

    (And you can only raise one arm at a time. That arm then has to be pinned to allow me to switch the cable rig to the other arm)

    Good eyes guys!!

  14. #64
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    Re: Get Bent

    Another pic from last night...................

    Name:  transport35.jpg
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Size:  221.3 KB One of the final things to be done will be to weld all the bolts to the hubs, making them like a standard automotive stud. This makes it easy to remove the rakes, and reinstall them. I hate ag wheel design. None of them use studs, they're mostly all lug bolts that you have to fight with to get them lined up to hang the wheel.

    If anybody has to do this.......make sure your current path doesn't flow through the bearings!!!!!!! Ground to the hub, not the machine.

  15. #65
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by farmersammm View Post
    That did sorta sound funny I guess I should have said that the time just evaporated..........life's like that. It goes by fast.
    Well it would have been the last century.

  16. #66
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    Re: Get Bent

    I bough a 12' tandem disc with no lift cylinder at a n auction. About 40 miles from home. No problem right? Jack it up & put a chain in place of the cylinder, right?

    About 10 miles down the road, running 45MPH, hit a pot hole & the chain broke. Sounded like a semi hit a bridge pillar. right in front of a farm house, the lady of the house came running out thinking the world was ending!

    A tandem disc make a lot of noise on pavement.

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  18. #67
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by cwby View Post
    I bough a 12' tandem disc with no lift cylinder at a n auction. About 40 miles from home. No problem right? Jack it up & put a chain in place of the cylinder, right?

    About 10 miles down the road, running 45MPH, hit a pot hole & the chain broke. Sounded like a semi hit a bridge pillar. right in front of a farm house, the lady of the house came running out thinking the world was ending!

    A tandem disc make a lot of noise on pavement.
    it didn't have a manual lock out for transport without a cylinder ?
    :

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  20. #68
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lis2323 View Post
    it didn't have a manual lock out for transport without a cylinder ?
    Or pick up a ratchet jack that takes place of the cylinder.

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  22. #69
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    Or pick up a ratchet jack that takes place of the cylinder.
    :

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  24. #70
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by Lis2323 View Post
    https://www.harborfreight.com/48-in-...ack-58395.html

    Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

  25. #71
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    Re: Get Bent

    https://hi-lift.com/hi-lift-jacks/pj-harrah-jack/

    Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

  26. #72
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by 52 Ford View Post
    https://hi-lift.com/hi-lift-jacks/pj-harrah-jack/

    Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk
    We all have those, but the screw jack is far safer as it pins into the cylinder lugs. I'm even betting that Sams rake is setup for cylinders to transport it, 2 of those screw jacks would have done the job.

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  28. #73
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    Re: Get Bent

    Quote Originally Posted by 12V71 View Post
    We all have those, but the screw jack is far safer as it pins into the cylinder lugs. I'm even betting that Sams rake is setup for cylinders to transport it, 2 of those screw jacks would have done the job.
    I have to admit I have knowingly used those hi lift jacks in sketchy repair situations when i felt there was no other option.

    Most definitely have to treat those with respect though.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
    :

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  30. #74
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    Re: Get Bent

    There's no provision for hydraulic cylinders to lift the rakes. Never was. It's my guess that people were able to purchase rakes that fully raised, and quit buying these........unless they had a situation where the rake never had to be transported on public roadways.

    Name:  transport36.jpg
Views: 106
Size:  201.5 KB More pics from yesterday evening. The only means of raising the rakes is this lever. As the rake beams are brought inwards towards the center of the machine, the roller engages the ramp, and lifts the arms. It will go no higher than this.

    Name:  transport37.jpg
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Size:  217.0 KB In this pic, the arm is about halfway raised to vertical using my modifications.

    Name:  transport38.jpg
Views: 104
Size:  214.2 KB In this pic, the arm is raised all the way to the limit of my cable.

    Later versions of this machine were modified to raise the rakes higher, but they never achieved full vertical............making them still unsafe for road transport.

    https://www.bigiron.com/Lots/2014Kel...1-KEVRakeCaddy

    https://www.equipmentfacts.com/listi...erman-10-wheel

    If you look at the auction pics, you can see that the lift lever was lengthened, and reached its full practical length. Nothing more could be done with the basic design to overcome the problem. The Kelderman hay rake slowly disappeared into the sunset. Only a depraved soul, such as myself, would ever resurrect one of these from the dead.

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  32. #75
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    Re: Get Bent

    So, you have a serious limit on farm equipment width in Oklahoma? In my state the limit is whatever you can move within reason up to 20' wide. But you better pull over and not block traffic.

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