Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 29

Thread: What would you think if you saw this welding?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    What would you think if you saw this welding?

    I've welded for years on my farm, building and modifying vegetable equipment to fit my old tractors. The most difficult part of learning anything new is to learn the tolerances -- everything can be more perfect, and I don't know "how perfect is good enough" in the real world. Sure, nothing has broken on my farm, and I have CWI papers saying I passed 3G and 4G bend tests at the community college, but I just don't know how my work stacks up if I showed it to a professional welder.

    I might like to begin taking on this sort of work from other farms, or helping out neighbors needing farm repairs, or perhaps even working at a local welding shop in the farm off-season.

    I know I'm perfectly fine for welding on my own equipment, and these welds won't break, but I really don't know what a professional welder would think of my skills here. Could you help me out? If I showed this work to a shop owner, would they think it looks "serviceable" "normal," or "hey, pretty good"? I guess I'm looking for some confidence that I could actually be a serious job applicant right now if I walked into a shop, or I'm looking to know if I'm not ready for that yet, and would more be asking for help to improve my skills. Here's some work I did recently, all 6011. Thanks.

    Name:  Re-skin mower deck.jpg
Views: 559
Size:  147.3 KB
    Cut off rusted-out deck and re-skin neighbor's bush hog

    Name:  Quick Hitch pin extensions.jpg
Views: 556
Size:  164.2 KB
    Widen hitch pins on another bush hog to match quick hitch spacing

    Name:  4-row parallel-linkage cultivator.jpg
Views: 562
Size:  155.8 KB
    My design, 4-row parallel-linkage cultivator for Farmall Cub (belly mount)

    Name:  2-stage pallet forks.JPG
Views: 554
Size:  423.6 KB
    Two-stage high-lift pallet forks for unloading from a truck with my tractor's rear 3-point hitch (spacing for cat 1 / cat 2 pins)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Posts
    77
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    Not trying to be a downer, but with a little more care you could make your welds more uniform looking. Straight, consistent laps, fill in the ends of the welds rather than leaving a crater, etc. There is a difference between what people will accept from a neighbour trying to help out versus a professional shop. 40 years in the industry, just my 2 cents.

  3. Likes farmall liked this post
  4. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    163
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    I agree with bakodiver. It looks like you do have some ability. What you showed isn't "bad", and in fact I'm sure that the neighbor was satisfied. I would also think that some of the other farmers in the area would be happy to have you do some of their repairs. What people will be willing to pay for that type of work is perhaps something you will want to consider. And how much you wish to earn from your efforts will likely dictate how much you will need to invest in further training and practice.
    As far as your comment on maybe working for a local welding shop - most people will not happily pay professional prices for the level you are at today. I have owned and operated the "local welding shop" for the last 21 years, and I can say with all certainty that few of my customers would pay me what I need to keep the doors open if that was the level of repair I offered. Most of my customers are farmers as well.
    The biggest reason I took the time to reply is because I think you have potential for improvement, and to give you some encouragement. The villageblacksmith wishes you all the best!
    Last edited by villageblacksmith; 08-06-2022 at 06:37 PM.

  5. Likes farmall liked this post
  6. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    7,772
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    They will give you feed back.

    Just remember next you take photos 📸 backup 10 feet with wide angle lens. They only post there best welds after painting

    I hope you keep posting 📫

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by David Spring View Post
    I've welded for years on my farm, building and modifying vegetable equipment to fit my old tractors. The most difficult part of learning anything new is to learn the tolerances -- everything can be more perfect, and I don't know "how perfect is good enough" in the real world. Sure, nothing has broken on my farm, and I have CWI papers saying I passed 3G and 4G bend tests at the community college, but I just don't know how my work stacks up if I showed it to a professional welder.

    I might like to begin taking on this sort of work from other farms, or helping out neighbors needing farm repairs, or perhaps even working at a local welding shop in the farm off-season.

    I know I'm perfectly fine for welding on my own equipment, and these welds won't break, but I really don't know what a professional welder would think of my skills here. Could you help me out? If I showed this work to a shop owner, would they think it looks "serviceable" "normal," or "hey, pretty good"? I guess I'm looking for some confidence that I could actually be a serious job applicant right now if I walked into a shop, or I'm looking to know if I'm not ready for that yet, and would more be asking for help to improve my skills. Here's some work I did recently, all 6011. Thanks.

    Name:  Re-skin mower deck.jpg
Views: 559
Size:  147.3 KB
    Cut off rusted-out deck and re-skin neighbor's bush hog

    Name:  Quick Hitch pin extensions.jpg
Views: 556
Size:  164.2 KB
    Widen hitch pins on another bush hog to match quick hitch spacing

    Name:  4-row parallel-linkage cultivator.jpg
Views: 562
Size:  155.8 KB
    My design, 4-row parallel-linkage cultivator for Farmall Cub (belly mount)

    Name:  2-stage pallet forks.JPG
Views: 554
Size:  423.6 KB
    Two-stage high-lift pallet forks for unloading from a truck with my tractor's rear 3-point hitch (spacing for cat 1 / cat 2 pins)

  7. Likes 52 Ford liked this post
  8. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Ct
    Posts
    2,693
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    Do you do much welding with 7018?

    I too see a lack of consistency, in travel speed and whipping motion, not trying to be a downer either but you asked for the criticism lol.

    I wouldn't be happy with welds like that leaving my shop, I'd grind out and do over just to make them look nice.

    But that's just me

    The pictures of the implements look Greta to me, it's the picture of that large plate where I see the issues

    Sent from my fab shop using a mig welder and a grinder
    Last edited by MetalMan23; 08-06-2022 at 07:11 PM.

  9. Likes 52 Ford, farmall liked this post
  10. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2022
    Posts
    41
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    You can apply for anything you'd like, plenty of shops will hire for attitude and "culture" over raw welding talent. The question you should be asking yourself is what could you settle for in compensation that wouldn't be a problem or piss you off.

    Obviously you're aware that those welds aren't the nicest, but they certainly aren't the worst. It's a bit hard to tell but it looks like in that first picture were you running an undersize rod for the weld size you wanted? Trying to get a big wide weld out of whatever diameter you had lying around, so you turned up the amps and went slow? That would explain the heavy spatter and very short weld lengths between start/stops.

    It doesn't matter how skilled the welder is if his setup and "hood-up" parameters aren't dialed in right. Things like matching electrode size to welding amperage and base metal thickness. Weld prep is big, all that black soot from the paint that was still there makes things look uglier than they probably are. I get it that it's stick and farm equipment but spending the extra time to clean paint or heavy rust off stuff will make a mediocre weld look less mediocre. A lot of the things that let a "good welder" be good is the little attention to detail/going the extra mile kind of thing like solid and consistent weld prep.

    If you're having trouble figuring out what's a good weld, what's bad, why does this look like this etc I'd recommend you get some books to study. All welders learn by trial and error but without a base level of knowledge or some guidance it can be easy to pickup bad habits or come to the wrong conclusion. If you go to a job interview and they see bad habits or you say something wrong how does that look?

    I'd recommend the "Forney Welding Manual" as a cheap and baseline source of knowledge. Only $20 on amazon and it has a bunch of basics including some excellent welding exercises you can do to help practice the fundamentals, it's very much an old school book. Those fundamental exercises are often what a welding interview looks like, a basic T-joint or a lap weld and a square groove butt/bead on plate. The other book I recommend is "Metals and How to Weld them" from the Lincoln Arc welding foundation. That book has a lot more welding metallurgy in it which is helpful for figuring out what to do with mystery alloys or understanding why certain best practices are the way they are.
    Last edited by Thoriated Wolfram; 08-06-2022 at 07:31 PM.

  11. Likes farmall liked this post
  12. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    4,985
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    I think you are pretty good, especially for what you are working on.

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    4,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    I am going to agree about pretty good. Pictures make weld look terrible but its usually way better than that. You have the technique which will improve and I am such a whiz with a grinder too that dont need to grind it all to improve the finish, I did a bunch of whiz 6011 the other day and clean if before a little paint and it lookjed great, if looked close the weld wasnt great but didnt need to be and was a lot over light rusted sheet so was acceptable, om machine very similar.

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    I appreciate your taking the time to reply, and that you all basically said the same thing: practice getting a consistent, even bead, and as for "quality" well it doesn't look great, but as for whether somebody *cares* it all matters who is asking for what work, from what situation (shop vs neighbor), and for what price. Which is sort of what I expected -- in the farm/neighbor realm, people care about "is it a sound weld that will hold"; in the professional realm there is a level of skill far beyond that, and a different baseline. And I did post in the "Ask a welding business owner," rather than asking for an opinion from some neighbors or the all-purpose repairman!

    You can apply for anything you'd like, plenty of shops will hire for attitude and "culture" over raw welding talent. The question you should be asking yourself is what could you settle for in compensation that wouldn't be a problem or piss you off.

    Obviously you're aware that those welds aren't the nicest, but they certainly aren't the worst. It's a bit hard to tell but it looks like in that first picture were you running an undersize rod for the weld size you wanted? Trying to get a big wide weld out of whatever diameter you had lying around, so you turned up the amps and went slow? That would explain the heavy spatter and very short weld lengths between start/stops.
    I don't think my attitude and "culture" would get me very far in a shop that hires on that basis, so I suppose I'll work on my welding...

    Context on the mower deck is that it was a 1/8th thick deck, lapped over the side-frame which was a bit thinner that that, and butted up against the thicker frame piece showing on the right side of the photo. Fit-up left gaps of about 3/64th, maybe towards 1/16th where the frame was less even (the way the mower was constructed, the biggest gaps were in the front, in the closer part of the photo), and I was pretty happy with that. Not that big a gap, although large relative to the thickness of the metal being welded. All done with 3/32 6011, 70 amps. I think what was happening is that I wanted to be sure to get a good solid weld, and rather than bridge the gap the way a regular fillet weld would just fill in next to the edge of a thicker plate (welding the "edge" of one piece to the "face" of the next), on the 1/8th sheet I thought that might result in too small a weld. So I tied-in to the bottom frame piece and then went back to the top corner of the sheet, and since it was just 1/8th sheet the puddle got pretty big and melted down into the gap, which is what I was going for -- basically I used the sheet metal itself to fill any gaps, rather than the weld metal (of course the rod got melted in there too). I watched the puddle and moved on when I was certain it was enough solid metal all the way through. So the size of the bead was influenced by the fit-up, melting more metal down to fill larger gaps etc, and had some effect on the evenness of the whipping. I only say this for context about what I was thinking about, and how I chose to proceed on the repair -- not saying this is what accounts for all the un-evenness! I am certain that a professional would do a more even and nicer job, in the same starting conditions.

    Do you do much welding with 7018?
    That's all we used in a welding class, to pass the groove test, but I haven't used it outside of that context. I really end up using 6011 for repair work and even for all the things I've built from scratch, since it's better penetration, doesn't mind some rust, and less concern about slag inclusion.

  15. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    9,902
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    hat do you have for a machine ? Sounds like if you are using 6011, AC is my guess. They have 7018 rod for AC. What size rods ? 1/8'' ?

    They don't look bad but using 7018 will definitely look better. Nothing wrong with 6011. You could run a small tight stringer of 6011 and then run 7018 over it.

    If you are going to be doing light gauge , a mig machine is the way to go. Mig on mower decks is fast and easy to run cold to fill holes or gaps. You can also tack some 1/4'' round to the underside for backing. Thin material can be done with stick, just needs practice.

    With those smaller pieces that you can manhandle, place in a easy weldable position where you are comfortable. Positioning where its an easy flat weld will result in a better looking job. Tack everything up and then weldout.

  16. Likes farmall liked this post
  17. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    4,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    Also,,,, 1/8 6011 rod for that work, those are too small.

  18. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    7,772
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    My background is metal buildings and aircraft hangar doors. With C51 license (structure steel) in the state of California.

    Most of my work was with stick and fluxcore to comply with the state regs and lawyers.

    Most my welding was with E7018 and E71T-1 with CO2.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by David Spring View Post
    I appreciate your taking the time to reply, and that you all basically said the same thing: practice getting a consistent, even bead, and as for "quality" well it doesn't look great, but as for whether somebody *cares* it all matters who is asking for what work, from what situation (shop vs neighbor), and for what price. Which is sort of what I expected -- in the farm/neighbor realm, people care about "is it a sound weld that will hold"; in the professional realm there is a level of skill far beyond that, and a different baseline. And I did post in the "Ask a welding business owner," rather than asking for an opinion from some neighbors or the all-purpose repairman!



    I don't think my attitude and "culture" would get me very far in a shop that hires on that basis, so I suppose I'll work on my welding...

    Context on the mower deck is that it was a 1/8th thick deck, lapped over the side-frame which was a bit thinner that that, and butted up against the thicker frame piece showing on the right side of the photo. Fit-up left gaps of about 3/64th, maybe towards 1/16th where the frame was less even (the way the mower was constructed, the biggest gaps were in the front, in the closer part of the photo), and I was pretty happy with that. Not that big a gap, although large relative to the thickness of the metal being welded. All done with 3/32 6011, 70 amps. I think what was happening is that I wanted to be sure to get a good solid weld, and rather than bridge the gap the way a regular fillet weld would just fill in next to the edge of a thicker plate (welding the "edge" of one piece to the "face" of the next), on the 1/8th sheet I thought that might result in too small a weld. So I tied-in to the bottom frame piece and then went back to the top corner of the sheet, and since it was just 1/8th sheet the puddle got pretty big and melted down into the gap, which is what I was going for -- basically I used the sheet metal itself to fill any gaps, rather than the weld metal (of course the rod got melted in there too). I watched the puddle and moved on when I was certain it was enough solid metal all the way through. So the size of the bead was influenced by the fit-up, melting more metal down to fill larger gaps etc, and had some effect on the evenness of the whipping. I only say this for context about what I was thinking about, and how I chose to proceed on the repair -- not saying this is what accounts for all the un-evenness! I am certain that a professional would do a more even and nicer job, in the same starting conditions.


    That's all we used in a welding class, to pass the groove test, but I haven't used it outside of that context. I really end up using 6011 for repair work and even for all the things I've built from scratch, since it's better penetration, doesn't mind some rust, and less concern about slag inclusion.

  19. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2022
    Posts
    7
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    hat do you have for a machine ? Sounds like if you are using 6011, AC is my guess. They have 7018 rod for AC. What size rods ? 1/8'' ?
    Also,,,, 1/8 6011 rod for that work, those are too small.
    I've got the 160i, so all DC. I've run 7018 with it for practice, works fine, I just tend to pick 6011 to use.
    The mower deck (1st pic) was all 3/32 6011 on 12ga sheet, and everything else shown was with 1/8 6011.

    Yes, I bet MIG would be the "official" process for a lot of this work, but stick's what I've got!

  20. #14
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Manitoba Canada
    Posts
    8,032
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    When you say you use 6011 because it doesn't mind a little rust, that tells me that you are cutting corners on preparation. You won't get pretty welds unless you get the grinder in there and clean it up before you start the welder. Having said that, I also know how difficult that can be on twisted up old farm equipment...
    The harder you fall, the higher you bounce...

    250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC Stick
    F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
    230 amp Sears AC Stick
    Lincoln 180C MIG
    Victor Medalist 350 O/A
    Cut 50 Plasma
    Les

  21. #15
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    4,985
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    For that work, I would choose stick welding first. I do not have a portable mig/wire feeder capable of that size steel. Though fluxcore with a good duty cycle would be nice.

  22. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2018
    Location
    Clovis California
    Posts
    7,772
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    For work you doing stick will work great for your work.

    E7018 is great for Xray work.
    Some here is all use but will find E6011, E7014 and E6013 does great for your line of work.

    Like whtbaron said E6011 is good for a little rust too.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by David Spring View Post
    I've got the 160i, so all DC. I've run 7018 with it for practice, works fine, I just tend to pick 6011 to use.
    The mower deck (1st pic) was all 3/32 6011 on 12ga sheet, and everything else shown was with 1/8 6011.

    Yes, I bet MIG would be the "official" process for a lot of this work, but stick's what I've got!

  23. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    4,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    5 minutes with a grinder, 5 with a sander and pour some paint on that deck and nop one would give that welding a second thought. Only thing wrong with it and that is pretty much subjective is a little ruff in appearance. Its raw and fresh, add some rust and or paint and would see how good it really is. Not full of holes, welded up, most of it wouldnt leak. How friggin good does it gotta be and a guy could still be fussing with it if it was a rocket ship and required smooth finish.
    Attached Images Attached Images   
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-07-2022 at 05:59 PM.

  24. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    4,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    I wish I would have cleaned this before the pic. Was on a truck bed right at chest height as a guy stands and wanted decent appearance. I saw another 10 job by an old timer the other day wish I got a pic of, was well finished and really took a look and got to know the family to realize this was stick welded. wish I got pic of that too.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  25. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Mid-East
    Posts
    2,650
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    To the OP, I would strongly suggest that you switch to 7018 for your structural stuff, and learn to run it uphill if you don't currently know how. 6010 / 6011 is great for open root passes when necessary and that's about all I use it for nowadays. I used to use it more often as a younger, learning welder.....but after I started repairing a lot of other guys' work who used it in the wrong situations, I pretty much dumped it. I've burnt several hundred pounds of 7018 this year, but I probably haven't used half a can of 3/32 and 1/8 6010 combined. I've *never* had a call-back to repair a broken weld that I'd initially made....some of that is technique, but some of it is also just using the right filler metal.

    The issue with the xx10 and xx11 rods is cracking; they're not nearly so good at standing up to fatigue cycles as xx18 is, so on any component that has harmonic, vibratory, or other types of fatigue, xx10 or xx11 isn't the way to go unless the weldment is really overbuilt and designed around the lesser rod. Which frankly would be a dumb thing to do since 7018 is plentiful and built for those purposes. Even old, wet 7018 will stand up to a LOT more fatigue cycles than any brand new 6010 or 6011 will. It's not about the tensile strength; the issue isn't "60" vs "70".

    Of what you've shown, I wouldn't worry about the 6010 anywhere except on the 3-point hitch pallet fork; I'd go over that with a good solid uphill pass or two with 1/8" 7018.

    PS - I didn't say this, but 7018 will handle rustier metal than some people think it will, and it will also burn through paint with the right technique, while still being stronger *and* looking better than 6010 / 6011 in the same situation. Sometimes you don't need an x-ray quality weld, but you should *always* end up with a pretty weld. If you don't, you shouldn't be selling your services. In my opinion only.

  26. Likes MinnesotaDave liked this post
  27. #20
    Join Date
    Mar 2021
    Location
    Near Roanoke, VA
    Posts
    1,023
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    Before I looked at the text,, (I only looked at the photos)
    I instantly thought,, "welded with 6011,, and looks good for farm welds"

    I think any farm guy would be happy with those welds,, the equipment is gonna work,, not be sold.

    Perfect results.

  28. Likes Lis2323, Roert42, 52 Ford liked this post
  29. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    4,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    PS - I didn't say this, but 7018 will handle rustier metal than some people think it will, and it will also burn through paint with the right technique
    I agree with this, absolutely, has so much more flux to carry away the crud. So much slower freeze it has time to boil and float it out.
    I used to use it more often as a younger, learning welder...
    I am the other way, use it more now. I have seen the repairs needed, had a guy comment as that was why he use 13 cause 11 cracks and not going to argue the metal with someone knows more about that kind of thing than most others do but most of that is simply design and insufficient weld rather than electrode. Adequate weld with any would have worked.

  30. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    4,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    I just did one similar and didnt pic. In some way that is better than what I did, he has so much more weld etc where I was a speed demon and simply seal weld it which on that thinner material is about the same workwise in the end.
    not be sold
    That is welded stronger than when it was new, Millions of pounds of steel sold every week with ****ty welding, comes out of factories every day. Comes at you on the hiway at 60 mph. Should see how cars used to be welded, mobile home frames stuck just long enuf to get them down the road.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-09-2022 at 08:44 AM.

  31. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    4,175
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    Working in a shop with new steel will really benefit your results and there will be more experienced weldors to help you improve. Some 1st year apprentices have no prior experience so you're not at the very bottom of the totem pole.

  32. Likes tbone550 liked this post
  33. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Brethren, Mi
    Posts
    4,190
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    Welding similar. Look different. In fact the OP welding is probably "better" but no one wants to pay for fussin with it. The grinding is more of scuff than real true grind, just smooth's any humps, sharp edges and removes spatter and slag. Dont really notice the welding. This will be dirt covered soon anyway.
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-16-2022 at 08:45 AM.

  34. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Posts
    3
    Post Thanks / Like

    Re: What would you think if you saw this welding?

    As others have mentioned, metal prep is very important prior to welding. I would also offer that post weld clean-up is important is to folks who make a living welding. There are some great comments here and I believe the photos of the bush hog deck drag your assessment down a bit. The welds are short and very heavy without uniformity. The quick hitch welds look great to me.. clean and crisp without apparent grinding.

    Work on cleaning up your edges. Good, quality welds have clean, straight edges and the welds are uniform throughout. If using 6011, clean everything up with a wire wheel on your grinder to remove the slag.

    Work on your start/stops and get them where you can barely see them. Also, I try not end a weld with a puddle, especially on corners and edges. I usually stop short and weld back from the other direction and weld back to the puddle.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Page generated in 1,664,484,270.96688 seconds with 15 queries