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Thread: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

  1. #1
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    Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    I have a Lincoln 200 tig. I have problems with thinwall galvanized, painted or dirty sheet metal,- stuff that is too thin to easily stick weld, and too dirty for tig. Think farm repair.

    Would a mig welder with flux core make it easier to weld this sort of thing? What sort of amp range and wire size would be good?

    I was thinking something like a Miller 141 or 211 , Hobart 210MVP, Lincoln powermig 210,etc. budget under 2K .

    This is for home shop use- general repair,and fabrication.

    Thanks for your help!
    Last edited by stoneaxe; 08-09-2022 at 11:48 AM.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    I really like my Lincoln 210 mp.

    For galvanized sheet metal, silicon bronze wire works best (and you don't have to grind off the galvanizing first).

    For thicker rusty metal, I'd use stick welding with 6013.
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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    What is "thinwall" to you? ⅛" wall? or 0.020" wall thickness?
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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    You are going to get a lot of opinions here which is different than helping you choose the right welder for you and the good news is it can be done well under 2K and even less if you want to work at it. For constant thin work, if this was a real operation would have an 023 140 dedicated to it, own bottle, makes it a spare for the machine you should have here number 1 is a 210 class mig 030 solid wire. If you do not have this already rush to get it now, charge card in hand this afternoon, a Hobart 190-210, Lincoln Pro 180 or similar, well under a K for machine itself, buy it today and use the thing and you will be here thanking me by tomorrow.
    It will tolerate some of that stuff depending on thickness and even position. You can improve cleaning and paint will often burn off, flash with torch and as long as its not interfering with arc somewhat tolerernt for simple work. Surprising some tar and oil not a great problem for everything, it is never a good thing but you gotta get it done.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-09-2022 at 12:37 PM.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    That machine will use a smaller wire but i am a daily driver and hate changing stuff. I had 140 a while and it was handy with small wire, right down to foil. For general I like 030, it gives it a lot more punch on the high end and can turn down better than 035 in a bigger machine which is another leap. Basically the 200 will deliver 2x the current with a size larger wire than the 140 and a 250 will double it with size larger wire. If you are paying men to do thyis the larger machines are free quickly. Use a larger cheaper spool of wire but for the home diy, sheet fix it 1/8 andle and tube crowd the 200 compact feeder is the right machine 4 u.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    How thin is thin?

    Is that the only thickness you will weld or just occasionally?

    Are you going to have another machine to do thicker work or will you want to do most work with this setup? (you got a TIG setup, but what about heavier gauge rust scrap?)


    If you are trying to weld paper thin sheet to tubing why not just use rivets? sheet metal screws may be easier, but I could understand not wanting the screw heads sticking out that much.



    For 16/18ga you could still stick weld it with 6011 3/32. Just have to move very quick to keep it from burning through. Fast freeze rod, and whipping it farther out then you normally would letting it cool enough for another dab.

    Wire feeder will be faster. Can still burn off gunk with solid wire. 16/18ga would be find .030, would need to stich weld it, couldn't run continuously for too long. .024 would allow you to run a longer bead without stopping on real light stuff, but would be slow if you needed to weld something like 1/8" or up on the same setup.
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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    You did not say size of tubing.

    You find fluxcore under best conditions is 22 gauge. But most are lucky to weld down to 18 or 16 gauge.

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    I have a Lincoln 200 tig. I have problems with thinwall galvanized, painted or dirty sheet metal,- stuff that is too thin to easily stick weld, and too dirty for tig. Think farm repair.

    Would a mig welder with flux core make it easier to weld this sort of thing? What sort of amp range and wire size would be good?

    I was thinking something like a Miller 141 or 211 , Hobart 210MVP, Lincoln powermig 210,etc. budget under 2K .

    This is for home shop use- general repair,and fabrication.

    Thanks for your help!

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Nothing like 6011 rods for welding galv and through paint, get a esab 161, get some 6011 rods, 3/32 or even 1/16 if you have to fit real thin stuff

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    He already has a stick machine, what he doesnt have is a wire feed. I know he used the words rust and paint but if this is thin and dirty it will be a problem with any of it, he should invest in a mig and some cleaning tools.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    What is thin?

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by stoneaxe View Post
    I was thinking something like a Miller 141 or 211 , Hobart 210MVP, Lincoln powermig 210,etc. budget under 2K .
    I'd skip the 141 as it really doesn't have the amperage to be a general use/repair/fab machine...would be fine for thin stuff, but invariably something bigger comes along where you'll want to use it.

    I know a couple of guys with new MM211s and they all love them and I pretty regularly use a new 212 which is really similar as far as welding performance and it's a nice machine.
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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    I have them all, prolly 10 machines. only reason I use a buzzer is cause I can and got a box of free rods. 99% I can do with a 180 clkass mig. My neighbor is an expert, can run any machine made. He is a home time type hobby duty cycle guy and hasnt been over to weld anything since he got a 175 20 years ago. Like Bart said, the 149 class has its place but the 200 gives it some power.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-11-2022 at 01:40 PM.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oscar View Post
    What is "thinwall" to you? ⅛" wall? or 0.020" wall thickness?
    I was stick welding nasty 14 gauge steel day before yesterday. I think for a stick machine, 16 gauge is "thin". 20 gauge is "really thin". 24 gauge is "prolly too thin".

    The 14 gauge I was welding was plasma cut out of an old 275 gallon fuel oil tank.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan23 View Post
    Nothing like 6011 rods for welding galv and through paint, get a esab 161, get some 6011 rods, 3/32 or even 1/16 if you have to fit real thin stuff

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Yep. I was burning 3/32 6011 DCEP on that dirty 14 gauge (mentioned in post #13). Not sure what amperage. 75ish amps, maybe? Outside corner joint at the bench. Then I wire brushed the heck out of the inside then stitched that with a 1/8" 6013 at maybe 80 or 90 amps. After the outside corner weld, I made sure the corner was 90 degrees, then did the "big" inside corner weld figuring that having a wide fillet in there would act like a bit of a gusset, since the outside corner is getting ground smooth.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    I agree with the 211 or 212 ish machine. I started my business with a miller 210 and it was able to weld 040 through 3/8 all on 030 solid. I dont suggest the 140 just because the price to go to a 2XX is not much more, but you have a much great range to work with. The down side is 220 only for bigger machines. I think the 211 is 115 capable.

    I believe Mig is the way to go over tig and stick in this case just because of the versatility or thick vs thin. It's very hard to weld 040, hanging on the side of a tractor to weld a shield in with stick.

    If your low end is 1/8". Stick seems the way to go if your not welding large pieces that would take 4 hrs to do a 5 minute mig job.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by tapwelder View Post
    What is thin?
    He still hasn't answered that question,

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by MetalMan23 View Post
    He still hasn't answered that question,

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    I think they should get this one.

    https://www.amazon.com/HBCHEN-Handhe.../dp/B097BWBCMB

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by 52 Ford View Post
    I think they should get this one.

    https://www.amazon.com/HBCHEN-Handhe.../dp/B097BWBCMB

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    Maybe if you have enough "Lucky Coin" you can a purchase "Magic Welder"

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  23. #19
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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    He already has a welding machine, the 1 he doesnt have is a wire feed and for general farm work fixit all the light sheet and brackets its the thing for him. I also welded a bunjch of sheet the other day with 6011 but its not shoving him in the direction he should go. This is the next machine he should buy and any advice he gets to the contrary isnt really from a value added point. It distracts from that which causes doubt and fear and I can never and I mean NEVER except 1 idiot came on Hobart had bought something used,,, but a guy who got a 210 and hooked it up never comes along and says, well that was a big fuggin mistake. Never.
    Oner of the recent guys here came along and ask about 100 questions about several machines and was kind of stuck then he got him a 210 and DC buzzer and been a blaze since.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by scsmith42 View Post
    I really like my Lincoln 210 mp.

    For galvanized sheet metal, silicon bronze wire works best (and you don't have to grind off the galvanizing first).

    For thicker rusty metal, I'd use stick welding with 6013.
    I too have been very happy with my Lincoln 210MP. Then you would have a matched set.(with the SW200)Since you already have tig you wouldn't need to buy the expensive kit to hookup the expensive pedal (SSC's are just as good, and much cheaper) . I've used my friends miller 211, and another friend has the Hobart, and they all capable good machines. I'm not sure I would buy the Lincoln again because of some of the options that aren't available, or cost extra. It doesn't have an extra solenoid for tig welding, it doesn't remember programs. on the other hand, things I liked about it were its smooth arc, sturdy 175 amp gun, the informative read out that gives the amps and volts that you were really using. It can help you realize you ctwd isn't what you thing it is. I frequently run aluminum in a seperate 10ft 160amp whip with a teflon liner. It feeds .035" 5356 alum just fine. I also have the Mag 100 spool gun for when I use 4043 (much softer, and if your careful you might not need the spool gun.) and it works well. I have used silicone bronze on a lot of galvanized duct, flat, and round(it leaves more of the zinc for corrosion resistance. It also works well on exhaust parts. I would think the other 2 machines would also be capable. The real decision between the three machines would be the warranties. What is the standard ( the lincoln was three, with a $200 adder for 2 more years, from lincoln. I'm sure the others are similar, but you want to go with the one where you think you could get service from in the future, who's you're dealer . Some people have been happy with service from the internet, I personally like my local dealer, and pay the extra $100 for the machine. These machines would cover a lot of situations really well, are all portable , and are multi-voltage( I think). As far as thin , almost all these machines do about the same, probably good to about 20ga. with .023" solid wire, or .030" bronze.

    I myself probably wouldn't buy the Lincoln or the miller now, as HTP has some offerings in that price range with pulse, and multi purpose capabilities. That's because I weld all different things, in all different positions, it has more capabilities.

    If its farm/landscape type equipment, more amperage might be worth buying now. " I wish I'd bought a welder with fewer top end amps" No welder ever said.

    If budget was more of a concern Eastwood mig 250 has an awful lot of power, and duty cycle , is sold by a local brick and mortar, for $900 comes with 3year warranty with another 2 years for $200. The Ironman 2xx (not sure of the new models) might be a good choice in your price range, not as portable, but powerful.
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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Try magic JB WELD works every time.

    I see in shop and know it will a great pay day.
    First the cost of removing the JB WELD.
    Next get the weld prepared.
    Now to do the job right with welding.

    The magic JB WELD and a great pay day so more "Magic Welder"

    Dave

    Quote Originally Posted by albrightree View Post
    Maybe if you have enough "Lucky Coin" you can a purchase "Magic Welder"

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Buy a rugged stand alone common feeder. He already has a stick tig machine. Pro Mig or Hobart would be on top of my list, the 190 is spooly ready too. If you need 120V then not 4 u but there are a lot of machines on the used market and those are 2 you rarely see cause people buys them keep em.
    They sell 140's,,, to buy those.
    Think farm repair.
    While the tig he has is ok its,,, I shouldnt say useless, you can be a fartstick and use it for farm equipment but the constant light ga common steel work is every day, or can be and exhaust, broken brackets fenders, any kind of saheet metal contraption, lots of it in farm. The wire feed was the Godsend for that work, got one prolly made 30000 welds, 50-75 rolls of wire thru it, just a guess, some longer welds but 1000;s of them like a pit stop where we got a unit next to the bench, longest thing is to remember where the hood is.
    Last edited by Sberry; 08-12-2022 at 09:21 AM.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    They got a econo spooly with package with the 190, it really works ok. A farmer should have some way to glue alum, you got tig, its kind of a butt saver but the real work in small wire. Location is everything, can reach both benches, twist it and can come from behind to vise bench and can drive right up to it or has enough cord to pull out on to floor.
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    Last edited by Sberry; 08-12-2022 at 09:26 AM.

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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Quote Originally Posted by albrightree View Post
    Maybe if you have enough "Lucky Coin" you can a purchase "Magic Welder"

    That's pretty cool. If it didn't have a handle, you could put that welder in your pocket if you have loose/baggy jeans. Leads in the other pocket.
    1st on WeldingWeb to have a scrolling sig!



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    Re: Sell me on a welder type for thinwall steel, dirty steel.

    Girls can weld also.. ???

    I guess if you put it in you pocket it will distinguish an electrode from a holder?

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