In soft material like brass or bronze I would hand feed since I could groove it deep enough ( 5-7 ) thou in one pass. On harder material I would use my coarsest thread setting ( 4 tpi) and most likely do 2 passes or more depending on diameter of bore.
Be careful what you wish for. I believe they actually made one this color for advertising purposes.
I still think the 1950 MFWD is one of the coolest tractors ever built.( Herman in the vid) missed out on one about a year ago.
this one even has stock rear wheels as well
I prefer our Milwaukee electric grease gun at work. When toy have to grease multiple axles with multiple zerks on one piece of equipment its easy on the hands
I prefer our Milwaukee electric grease gun at work. When toy have to grease multiple axles with multiple zerks on one piece of equipment its easy on the hands
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
I haven't tried electric, but I did have a couple air powered ones. It's easier, but I don't like them because there's no "feel" for how much grease is actually going in. You can't tell if the zerk is plugged, or if you are overgreasing until it starts weaping out everywhere.
250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC Stick
F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
230 amp Sears AC Stick
Lincoln 180C MIG
Vevor MIG 200A
Victor Medalist 350 O/A
Vevor Cut 50 Plasma
Les
I agree. At home I use a handheld grease gun. But at work of the seals aren't blown out of whatever I'm greasing I grease for 5-10 seconds. Depending on the last time it was pm'd.
I use hand held also. I have a disk I use about a box of grease on in a year and a couple 3 tubes for the rest of it. My stuff is up and tight except for that 1 piece and most stuff is a pump and so low use that often a few pumps once a year is enough. I do need some new guns though, I am getting to the end.
I wasn't sure how well the indicator would work on an egged hole, but went ahead with it anyway. The best I could get was .003 Total Indicated Runout. How one of these will work on such an irregular hole is beyond my understanding. Original measurements, prior to indicating, was X 1.272, Y 1.265 . And I'm not sure how accurate that was.
The object was to just clean up the bore, leaving as much meat as possible. At the end of the process, I coated the bore with layout ink, then kept cutting until all of the ink was gone. It took 3 final passes to remove all of the ink from the entire perimeter. It was still egged a bit up to the final cut.
The Nickel doesn't machine for crap. It pushes the tool off, while the cast iron cuts easily. The line in the bore shows just how much the boring head pushes off the material. The line shows that you could run the cutter through again, and still remove material. You can either do a spring cut, or leave it alone. I chose to leave it as is. The spring cuts just cut the cast more, while leaving the Nickel proud.
I would have preferred building this out with Bronze, but I felt it wouldn't take the pounding like the harder Nickel will. I suppose it's a compromise.
Final bore diameter turned out at 1.391 I guess it's allright, it is what it is. It took removing .119 to get the bore cleaned up. This seems a bit excessive. But I'm not sure how much angle was on the bore as it came from the tractor. Judging by the wear on the pin, the bore couldn't have been very straight.
Given the damage to the pin, it's entirely possible the bore would take a bit of hogging to true it up. Things were definitely getting eaten up.
One positive...........................at 1.391, I'll have room for a fairly thick walled bushing. I'm downsizing the pin from 1.125 to 1.00 I know it seems counterintuitive, but I feel that I need more wear material than would be possible with the OEM diameter pin. There just isn't enough bushing wall thickness with the larger pin.
This appears to be a NOS pivot. You can see that the bushing is absolutely ridiculous. It's paper thin. IMHO, it's just plain crazy to go back to something like that in an area that's subject to pounding, and a lot of lateral forces. (I'll make the final decision about pin diameter a bit later on)
Last edited by farmersammm; 10-06-2022 at 12:42 AM.
Reason: added last sentence
When the part was finished, I was going nutz!! As I've been going nutz since the start of the work on this part. NOTHING WAS LOOKING STRAIGHT DURING THE ENTIRE PROCESS!!
Look carefully at how the casting was misaligned for factory machining..............or possibly how the casting was so irregular, it had to be machined as it had been. The tell, is how far off center the holes are in the pads. This thing is completely out of whack................so naturally, you can't judge anything by just looking at the machine work compared to the shape of the casting. I often talk about this, but I've never seen it this bad. You had to place your faith in the drilled holes for setting all other parameters. Using straight edges to measure, the thing is square, and true, coming off the mill............you just have to ignore the optical illusion.
Clearances are tight on this part. It has to be assembled in a definite order. Stay mounted to axle, then pivot mounted to stay, and frame. Finally the pin nut is attached. The bolt that holds the pivot to the frame barely clears the pin. This is the limiting factor on the new pin that has to be made.
You're fighting for every inch on this thing. PITA. I may have overbuilt this face, and have to mill it back to what it looked like coming off the tractor. It might not have worn like the opposite face. No biggy, but it was an expensive proposition to add the buildup at over $3 a rod.
It's murder rebuilding something without seeing what a new one looks like. I didn't find the pic of the NOS pivot until yesterday.
Took a nap after supper............. Now it's back out to the shop to burn some midnight oil. Need to make the threaded ends tonight, so they can be welded on in the morning. These have to be on, in order to dry fit the pivot, and possibly mill it a bit further to fit. I imagine this would be fun as a hobby, but it's a nightmare when you actually need the damn tractor up and running.
Underpowered lathe + a guy that doesn't do threading every day = a mind numbing stretch of time standing in front of the machine I never run over 70rpm, so it's a slow go. Bless the heroes that can thread at high speed, Lord Knows....I ain't one of 'em. 1 3/8-6 is a big thread for a little lathe
Trim them down to size for length, tack them up, and on to the tractor for adjusting final length.
The original assemblies were single nutted, with a lockwasher. It was the lockwashers that ate everything, and obviously didn't lock anything........they never do. So this time around it's gonna be double nuts(jamb nutz). And a 4 foot cheater bar
Unless it's a head or a pump body or something that was intentionally built to be run with lock washers, I find I'm replacing them more and more with flat washers. In impact situations they just crack, break away and release the tension on the bolt instead of keeping things tight. The lock washer boxes in my bolt bins tend to collect dust and spare parts. Double nuts should do the trick.... always worked for me...
250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC Stick
F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
230 amp Sears AC Stick
Lincoln 180C MIG
Vevor MIG 200A
Victor Medalist 350 O/A
Vevor Cut 50 Plasma
Les
Unless it's a head or a pump body or something that was intentionally built to be run with lock washers, I find I'm replacing them more and more with flat washers. In impact situations they just crack, break away and release the tension on the bolt instead of keeping things tight. The lock washer boxes in my bolt bins tend to collect dust and spare parts. Double nuts should do the trick.... always worked for me...
I have been scrounging for some of that and really need to go to the bolt store and get some machine washers. I also have a scrap bin for locks and only use then where we got to so to speak. I agree 125% they are a problem on lots of implements. If we want it to stay tight we oil the thread and face of the nut provided the hole is accurate enuf and hit them with air gun. Some things can be broke from too tight but lots seem to work dandy hammered down. Our treatment for most everything is simple penetrating spray, if I wanna be fussy liq wrench penetrating oil, almost perfect for bolt/nut and wheel work.
I dont got a lot of use for sticky anti seize crap makes more mess than it does good. We founld we bout eliminate seizures when religiously spraing new installations and can often tell by feel a weathered connection was simply sprayed, just didnt gaul during initial install and actually micro loc some oil in pores displacing water.
Today is pretty terrible day. Trying to fit this all up is a real nightmare.
I'm thinking I overpadded the pivot, so it's a milling problem. This stuff cuts like sht, at least on my small machine. Only .010 at a pass
It may be that the pivot didn't wear as I thought it did, but who the heck knows.
Another pic from Fleabay. It shows what looks to be a setup that's still in pretty good shape. If that's the case, I need to remove about 1/8" from both sides of the pivot, or move the stay yoke further forward........which involves altering the stay yoke by about 1/2". I've yet to come across a good pic of the identical type axle. Especially the axle stay. The yokes seem to change shape with every serial number
Dry fitting the yoke is showing me to be about 1/4" off. It's in the pivot I believe. But that forces me to remove all the damn Nickel deposit..........which I don't want to do. I know damn well, if memory serves, that the face of that pivot was torn to Hell.
I even checked to see if the axle was square to the tractor. Running a tape from identical bolt locations on either side of the tractor, about 5 feet from the axle, and measuring the distance to each spindle shaft, I'm 1/16" out of square................ That's almost perfect, considering what this thing has been through to rebuild it. There were a lot of steps that coulda been done wrong. So...........the axle is good.
There are collars on the stay that control the fore/aft location on the bar/axle. I think this was the way they were "aligned",, or how the stay was made to fit perfectly. Slide the bar in, with it attached to the pivot, then weld the collars in place to hold the dimension. I noticed that the collars aren't in identical places on the bar, so that makes sense.
I think I need to scarf the collars off, set the yoke so it fits properly, then weld new collars in when it's all lined up. I really think that's how they did it. You can't tell me that they came off the line with no means of adjustment to put them together. There's too many variables involved I'm thinkin'.
K'kins is in Tulsa today. THANK GOD. The air's turning blue around here today
1/8 off the back of the pivot, and MOVING THE DAMN AXLE FORWARD ON THE PIN..................... There's about 3/8 clearance between the axle and the bolster. Push it forward to take up the clearance, and it's just about as close as a guy could get. Now I can cut the collars off, and move the stay forward about 1/4"
I need to move the stay to take up any additional buildup on the replacement stay pin on the yoke. But DAMMY GRAMMY, it's all comin' together!!
1/8 off the back of the pivot, and MOVING THE DAMN AXLE FORWARD ON THE PIN..................... There's about 3/8 clearance between the axle and the bolster. Push it forward to take up the clearance, and it's just about as close as a guy could get. Now I can cut the collars off, and move the stay forward about 1/4"
I need to move the stay to take up any additional buildup on the replacement stay pin on the yoke. But DAMMY GRAMMY, it's all comin' together!!
One thing I would do is pack the gap at the rear of the bolster pin with some machinery bushing washers before tightening the rear wishbone nut completely to take some stress off the rear bracket. A bit of tension could be a good thing. I do that with mechanical front drives to keep the axle from pounding front to rear when they reverse directions.
Both a good day and a sad day here as well. Finished putting the wheat in the bin (yield is good but it never did dry down so I still have that to contend with. Might be hauling a bunch to the drier in Nov. again). Had to pull the old 4020 off the auger today... it was starting to make a strange grinding noise and getting vibration in the floorboards. Not sure if it's coming from the engine or transmission, but with Powershift either way it could be the beginning of the end for the old girl. Might need another single tired tractor for the stonepicker...
250 amp Miller DialArc AC/DC Stick
F-225 amp Forney AC Stick
230 amp Sears AC Stick
Lincoln 180C MIG
Vevor MIG 200A
Victor Medalist 350 O/A
Vevor Cut 50 Plasma
Les
I thought I'd missed the mark by about 1/8", which might as well be a mile(see how the pin is not centered in the pivot hole). To verify, I lined up the center dimple on the axle pin with the center of the axle stay pin. Notice how the machined pin between the axle stay pin, and the steering shaft pin are out of alignment. And the bolt head isn't centered under the straightedge. This shows that the stay is not lined up right........not that my pivots are out of line
Lining up on the correct points.
Here I'm lined up on the stay pivot rear bolt, the machined steering shaft, and the axle pivot pin. IT SHOWS THAT THE STAY IS OUT OF LINE, NOT MY MACHINED PARTS
Now that everything is tight(almost too tight, but I can smoogie it), the uneven wear on the axle stay collars go into the sleeves at different depths.........THROWING THE WHOLE STAY OFF. The collars will be replaced in the correct unworn position, or moved enough to create a bit of clearance at the bolster.
Everything fits uber tight with the axle shoved all the way forward on its pin. This is fine,, but I still need some clearance to build a new stay pin that isn't worn at the bearing surface.
This is what I'm talking about. This shouldn't be this tight with a worn bearing surface on the stay. I should probably be seeing somewhere around 1/4" slop here, which would be corrected by a new pin. Obviously I was a bit off somewhere. It's hard to tell. The only undamaged thing for locating all of this mess was the one remaining undamaged hole in the axle tube. Everything comes off that hole, and how it related to the hole I had to torch cut. I'm amazed it's this close. Bit of a smoogie to set it right, and I think we're about done................I hope
This has been a real nightmare, especially now that it's coming together.
Went out to the shop, and retrieved my working notes. I believe they show what's going on.
The lengths of different areas........especially OAL from collar to end of thread, and also length of the unthreaded shank to the collars, are different on each side of the stay. There's about 1/8" difference between the two. That would be enough to cause the pin to be off center, and crooked. This area is where the new threaded stubs are going, so it's gonna be straightened out when I fit those, and weld them. That should bring the pin back in line.
Both a good day and a sad day here as well. Finished putting the wheat in the bin (yield is good but it never did dry down so I still have that to contend with. Might be hauling a bunch to the drier in Nov. again). Had to pull the old 4020 off the auger today... it was starting to make a strange grinding noise and getting vibration in the floorboards. Not sure if it's coming from the engine or transmission, but with Powershift either way it could be the beginning of the end for the old girl. Might need another single tired tractor for the stonepicker...
ReplyOriginally Posted by whtbaron
Master Welder
whtbaron liked this post
I wasn't sure how well the indicator would work on an egged hole, but went ahead with it anyway. The best I could get was .003 Total Indicated Runout. How one of these will work on such an irregular hole is beyond my understanding. Original measurements, prior to indicating, was X 1.272, Y 1.265 . And I'm not sure how accurate that was.
The object was to just clean up the bore, leaving as much meat as possible. At the end of the process, I coated the bore with layout ink, then kept cutting until all of the ink was gone. It took 3 final passes to remove all of the ink from the entire perimeter. It was still egged a bit up to the final cut.
The Nickel doesn't machine for crap. It pushes the tool off, while the cast iron cuts easily. The line in the bore shows just how much the boring head pushes off the material. The line shows that you could run the cutter through again, and still remove material. You can either do a spring cut, or leave it alone. I chose to leave it as is. The spring cuts just cut the cast more, while leaving the Nickel proud.
Given the damage to the pin, it's entirely possible the bore would take a bit of hogging to true it up. Things were definitely getting eaten up.
This appears to be a NOS pivot. You can see that the bushing is absolutely ridiculous. It's paper thin. IMHO, it's just plain crazy to go back to something like that in an area that's subject to pounding, and a lot of lateral forces. (I'll make the final decision about pin diameter a bit later on)
Look carefully at how the casting was misaligned for factory machining..............or possibly how the casting was so irregular, it had to be machined as it had been. The tell, is how far off center the holes are in the pads. This thing is completely out of whack................so naturally, you can't judge anything by just looking at the machine work compared to the shape of the casting. I often talk about this, but I've never seen it this bad. You had to place your faith in the drilled holes for setting all other parameters. Using straight edges to measure, the thing is square, and true, coming off the mill............you just have to ignore the optical illusion.
Let's see what we gots.....................
Clearances are tight on this part. It has to be assembled in a definite order. Stay mounted to axle, then pivot mounted to stay, and frame. Finally the pin nut is attached. The bolt that holds the pivot to the frame barely clears the pin. This is the limiting factor on the new pin that has to be made.
You're fighting for every inch on this thing. PITA. I may have overbuilt this face, and have to mill it back to what it looked like coming off the tractor. It might not have worn like the opposite face. No biggy, but it was an expensive proposition to add the buildup at over $3 a rod.
Took a nap after supper............. Now it's back out to the shop to burn some midnight oil. Need to make the threaded ends tonight, so they can be welded on in the morning. These have to be on, in order to dry fit the pivot, and possibly mill it a bit further to fit. I imagine this would be fun as a hobby, but it's a nightmare when you actually need the damn tractor up and running.
I never run over 70rpm, so it's a slow go. Bless the heroes that can thread at high speed, Lord Knows....I ain't one of 'em. 1 3/8-6 is a big thread for a little lathe
Another pic from Fleabay. It shows what looks to be a setup that's still in pretty good shape. If that's the case, I need to remove about 1/8" from both sides of the pivot, or move the stay yoke further forward........which involves altering the stay yoke by about 1/2". I've yet to come across a good pic of the identical type axle. Especially the axle stay. The yokes seem to change shape with every serial number
I think I need to scarf the collars off, set the yoke so it fits properly, then weld new collars in when it's all lined up. I really think that's how they did it. You can't tell me that they came off the line with no means of adjustment to put them together. There's too many variables involved I'm thinkin'.
I thought I'd missed the mark by about 1/8", which might as well be a mile(see how the pin is not centered in the pivot hole). To verify, I lined up the center dimple on the axle pin with the center of the axle stay pin. Notice how the machined pin between the axle stay pin, and the steering shaft pin are out of alignment. And the bolt head isn't centered under the straightedge. This shows that the stay is not lined up right........not that my pivots are out of line
Here I'm lined up on the stay pivot rear bolt, the machined steering shaft, and the axle pivot pin. IT SHOWS THAT THE STAY IS OUT OF LINE, NOT MY MACHINED PARTS
Everything fits uber tight with the axle shoved all the way forward on its pin. This is fine,, but I still need some clearance to build a new stay pin that isn't worn at the bearing surface.
This is what I'm talking about. This shouldn't be this tight with a worn bearing surface on the stay. I should probably be seeing somewhere around 1/4" slop here, which would be corrected by a new pin. Obviously I was a bit off somewhere. It's hard to tell. The only undamaged thing for locating all of this mess was the one remaining undamaged hole in the axle tube. Everything comes off that hole, and how it related to the hole I had to torch cut. I'm amazed it's this close. Bit of a smoogie to set it right, and I think we're about done................I hope
The lengths of different areas........especially OAL from collar to end of thread, and also length of the unthreaded shank to the collars, are different on each side of the stay. There's about 1/8" difference between the two. That would be enough to cause the pin to be off center, and crooked. This area is where the new threaded stubs are going, so it's gonna be straightened out when I fit those, and weld them. That should bring the pin back in line.
