Oliver 1850 Axle Pin Replacement

[M J D]

Knocking down those high spots with a die grinder will go a long ways to help with the boring. Could you just make 2 spacers a little longer than the height from where the bolt head sits and the maximum height of the outside of the rounded edge of the block. If the spacers were drilled and tapped they would allow the block to be securely held in the vise.

[farmersammm]

Knocking down those high spots with a die grinder will go a long ways to help with the boring. Could you just make 2 spacers a little longer than the height from where the bolt head sits and the maximum height of the outside of the rounded edge of the block. If the spacers were drilled and tapped they would allow the block to be securely held in the vise.

Oh absolutely, tear up a cutting tool if you don't. But, ya know.............your saying this, reminded me that I hadn't tried the DeWalt. Previously, I'd been using a little air powered die grinder, and it wasn't cutting the mustard. Good thing you said something, it jogged my memory. I was planning on using a cone stone, which is like using a bulldozer.

There's plenty of clean bore to find the center with a coax indicator, so I'm in luck sorta. The bore measures 1.5015 which is an oddball measurement, but you have to realize it was badly worn. I didn't bother measuring the egged portion. The pin that goes in here was probably 1.125 with a bushing. I figure on going with a smaller 1.00 pin, and either making a bronze bushing, or sleeving it with a steel bushing. I'll true the bore, then make a sleeve/bushing to fit.

I was going nuts trying to figure out how to clamp the stupid thing to the angle plate, then it hit me.........I have a ton of pullers, and some are bar pullers. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!!

After getting it set up, I indicated the part, and it was off an entire .005 I couldn't figure it out, it was driving me crazy. THEN I INDICATED THE DAMN ANGLE BLOCK. It's off by .0035ish. There's the error I'll pop a leaf from a feeler gauge underneath one of the locating pins, and it's off to the races. It was gratifying to chase down the problem.

I inspected the angle block for burrs, and looked to see if I'd mounted it to the table with a few chips underneath................it all checked out. I'm sort of surprised. I've never seen one of these off by that much. I mean, yeah.....it's only the thickness of a piece of printer paper, but it's enough to throw stuff off. Sometimes, I've heard, they grind these things before the casting is cured..........that could have made for the error. I've had it for a decade, and never had call to use it. Got a pair of them for a very reasonable price years ago, when this stuff was still affordable.

All this messing around, and doing chores, I forgot to grind a new boring bar for the boring head before the sun started going down. I don't like to grind anything in the shop for fear the grinding dust will get on the machines.

[whtbaron]

Didn't know DeWalt made a corded die grinder... how do you like it? Is it variable speed?

[duaneb55]

I was going nuts trying to figure out how to clamp the stupid thing to the angle plate, then it hit me.........I have a ton of pullers, and some are bar pullers. PROBLEM SOLVED!!!!!!!!

Genius!!

[farmersammm]

Didn't know DeWalt made a corded die grinder... how do you like it? Is it variable speed?

It's not variable speed, but I don't believe I need that feature.

It's a bit of a dangerous tool.

It literally creates an explosion of almost microscopic slivers when used with a carbide burr. I highly recommend a good pair of goggles, and an N95 respirator/face mask. I also very carefully clean my face, and hair,, after using it. The slivers could get in your eyes later in the day when you rub your face, etc.

It also needs a very firm hand. If the burr bounces, it will literally ping pong around inside the hole, and break the burr. Light controlled cuts(heavier once you learn to control it). And use a sharp burr. I prefer the double cut burrs because they're faster, but the standard single cut burrs are suitable for very light cuts where you don't want to take off too much by mistake. A dull burr will be slow, and overheat the tool because it's spinning too long for little reward.

I've had it for quite a few years, and I swear by it. I call it my smoogie tool. If a bolt hole is slightly out of line, it's the answer to your prayers.

I originally balked at the price, it was just as high priced years ago. Around $190 at my LWS. I might have gotten it cheaper, but I needed it that day, and I believe in buying local. I've never regretted the purchase.

The real bonus is the torque. It will absolutely do the job, just be careful with it.

And, I recommend, like grinders..................buy the one with the dead man paddle switch......Lock On switches are dangerous as Hell.

[farmersammm]

Looking at one of the previous pics of the clean bore....................I need to add a bit of filler on the ID of the buildup. I really never noticed how deep the void is. A nut has to mate with this surface. Always a bit of a setback when you do stuff. But a few minutes is well worth the trouble.

Sammy's Tip of the Day If you're welding around something sensitive, like here, where there's a bore that has to be kept clean..................use Anti Spatter to coat the bore. Not the spray stuff. Use the semi solid stuff that comes in a jar. I keep a jar of it around for just this kind of scenario. It allows you to place the goo in a precise location, without spraying the stuff all over where you're welding. (If it's hot outside, it will melt into a liquid in the jar, but it actually makes it easier to apply)

[farmersammm]

BTW.............there's a reason the tool has that long rubber grip at the nose. You absolutely need it to control the tool. It cushions the vibration, and gives you a good surface to entirely wrap your hand around. It's a thoughtful, well made tool.

[ghost_walker]

maybe write on the angle plate, not square and shim by a couple of ba' hairs. save time next time you use it.

for the die grinder, i would say a full face mask would be better. those silvers get everywhere. and defo no loose clothing even thinking about being near it

[farmersammm]

Quickie update, because no work got done today. Life takes up a lot of time I guess.

THE PIN TOOK GREASE Had to about stand on the gun lever, but it took it.

I'm sure the guys at PM meant well, but there's no way that thing coulda taken grease at .002 diametrical clearance. Unless either the pin, or bore, had a spiral grease groove cut in it. Which I can't do. And, I'm not entirely crazy about cutting longitudinal grooves in the pin, or the bore. I could do it with a bronze bushing, but not the steel bushing I'm using. Sometimes I think those doooods at PM are just too doggone fussy.

You start looking at .002 clearance, and you're approaching the type of clearance in automotive engine bearings........which are pressure lubed with light oil. NLG2 is a bit harder to force into small spaces.

I had done a little extra to the pin from the get-go. It has two grease holes along its length. One facing the side of the bore, and one facing where the pin carries the load. They're at the 3:00, and 6:00 position. I don't figure on the 6:00 hole passing grease once the tractor is sitting on the ground, but I figure over time, the wear in the area will create some sort of clearance for grease..........and when it starts to wear is when grease is really needed. Probably a waste of time, but WTH.

I've read, here and there, that grease holes cause a weak area in a pin. I suppose it does,, but I guess the pin either wears out, or has the chance of breaking. Besides, if this thing was engineered properly, which I imagine it was, the pin is likely oversized for the load it carries, including impact load. I read a lively discussion on an engineering forum. There were two camps. One side: A hole is the kiss of death. The other side: The hole provides stress relief. Then they moved on to arguing about fatigue.

And...............(I'm not done by a long shot). If it's this hard to get grease in it, imagine what it will be like when it's actually on the ground. The pin could be side loaded, or bottom loaded, or cocked fore and aft. That extra grease hole is insurance. I know at least one of the holes won't be obstructed.

Whtbaron made a great comment about diameters, and other machiney type of stuff............................"Don't discuss tractor repairs with the guys on PM" or something like that.

Anyways...............I've always built pins to .005, and .010, and never had problems with excess wear. It ain't a Formula I race car. Anyways........as much as I grease stuff, it ain't ever gonna be grease starved

In the spirit of Science, I guess we could call this an empirical field study on the relationship between multiple grease holes, and pin failure. And it's all on my dime, so no participants were hurt in the study. Do not try this at home "closed track with professional drivers"

We's goin' down the slippery() slope here.

(Oh yeah, lest I forget.................... My theory on longitudinal grooves, is that they act as a reamer, and increase wear. Just more flat spots on a pin to worry about)

[farmersammm]

It is also evident, by experience, that a smaller length bore takes grease easier. This bore is about 6" long. Even suspended from the tractor, the axle is exerting uneven forces on the pin, and trying to keep grease from flowing.

[farmersammm]

The Farmer's Friend
or insert any other kind
of equipment owner

[M J D]

Quickie update, because no work got done today. Life takes up a lot of time I guess.

THE PIN TOOK GREASE Had to about stand on the gun lever, but it took it.

I'm sure the guys at PM meant well, but there's no way that thing coulda taken grease at .002 diametrical clearance. Unless either the pin, or bore, had a spiral grease groove cut in it. Which I can't do. And, I'm not entirely crazy about cutting longitudinal grooves in the pin, or the bore. I could do it with a bronze bushing, but not the steel bushing I'm using. Sometimes I think those doooods at PM are just too doggone fussy.

You start looking at .002 clearance, and you're approaching the type of clearance in automotive engine bearings........which are pressure lubed with light oil. NLG2 is a bit harder to force into small spaces.

I had done a little extra to the pin from the get-go. It has two grease holes along its length. One facing the side of the bore, and one facing where the pin carries the load. They're at the 3:00, and 6:00 position. I don't figure on the 6:00 hole passing grease once the tractor is sitting on the ground, but I figure over time, the wear in the area will create some sort of clearance for grease..........and when it starts to wear is when grease is really needed. Probably a waste of time, but WTH.

I've read, here and there, that grease holes cause a weak area in a pin. I suppose it does,, but I guess the pin either wears out, or has the chance of breaking. Besides, if this thing was engineered properly, which I imagine it was, the pin is likely oversized for the load it carries, including impact load. I read a lively discussion on an engineering forum. There were two camps. One side: A hole is the kiss of death. The other side: The hole provides stress relief. Then they moved on to arguing about fatigue.

And...............(I'm not done by a long shot). If it's this hard to get grease in it, imagine what it will be like when it's actually on the ground. The pin could be side loaded, or bottom loaded, or cocked fore and aft. That extra grease hole is insurance. I know at least one of the holes won't be obstructed.

Whtbaron made a great comment about diameters, and other machiney type of stuff............................"Don't discuss tractor repairs with the guys on PM" or something like that.

Anyways...............I've always built pins to .005, and .010, and never had problems with excess wear. It ain't a Formula I race car. Anyways........as much as I grease stuff, it ain't ever gonna be grease starved

In the spirit of Science, I guess we could call this an empirical field study on the relationship between multiple grease holes, and pin failure. And it's all on my dime, so no participants were hurt in the study. Do not try this at home "closed track with professional drivers"

We's goin' down the slippery() slope here.

(Oh yeah, lest I forget.................... My theory on longitudinal grooves, is that they act as a reamer, and increase wear. Just more flat spots on a pin to worry about)

I did explain to you how to cut a spiral grease groove along with longitudinal grooves. I'm glad it took grease for you tho even though I didn't think it would work very well.

[farmersammm]

Let's say you cut a groove at the absolute coarsest thread a lathe can be set for.

Even at about 10 thou deep, you've cut up the bearing surface on the pin.

In reality, if you look at a bushing/pin that's has grooves cut in it, you're probably looking at maybe 1/4tpi or so. I didn't do the math.

Do this by hand, and you're looking at a disaster. You have to advance the longitudinal feed at a set rate.......REPEATEDLY. You have to trace the prior groove you made, which BTW would be a clusterf'k of a groove........not regular, or evenly spaced. Try to duplicate that a time or two.

As far as longitudinal cuts go..............look at a broached keyway. You have an unsupported area where the keyway is. It's akin to a reamer. As it wears, it will start to cut into the bushing bore, or at least accelerate wear. Sort of like an out of round tire. Thump a thump a thump. It's a poorly supported shaft.

Without the specialized machine to do a proper grease relief groove, you're barking at the moon.

Admittedly, I had some concerns. Point O O 4 is about the thickness of average printer paper. I took the risk (which is why I always say that it's on my dime, and y'all can ride along). The risk paid off.............even though (sly grin) I figured it would. Remember that I regularly make bushings with .005 clearance....albeit much shorter bushings.

Now, as far as the operational effects of this huge clearance.................. The end of the axle moves much more than it would have, if the clearance was .002 But, how close do you machine something before it becomes unusable. Or requires additional specialized machining to make it viable.

Never fear though.............this thing will start eating itself the moment it goes in the field. It's the nature of the game. And it's the reason the original bushings failed. Stuff happens.

But I guaran-f'n-tee you, that it will be better than this

[M J D]

Let's say you cut a groove at the absolute coarsest thread a lathe can be set for.

Even at about 10 thou deep, you've cut up the bearing surface on the pin.

In reality, if you look at a bushing/pin that's has grooves cut in it, you're probably looking at maybe 1/4tpi or so. I didn't do the math.

Do this by hand, and you're looking at a disaster. You have to advance the longitudinal feed at a set rate.......REPEATEDLY. You have to trace the prior groove you made, which BTW would be a clusterf'k of a groove........not regular, or evenly spaced. Try to duplicate that a time or two.

As far as longitudinal cuts go..............look at a broached keyway. You have an unsupported area where the keyway is. It's akin to a reamer. As it wears, it will start to cut into the bushing bore, or at least accelerate wear. Sort of like an out of round tire. Thump a thump a thump. It's a poorly supported shaft.

Without the specialized machine to do a proper grease relief groove, you're barking at the moon.

Admittedly, I had some concerns. Point O O 4 is about the thickness of average printer paper. I took the risk (which is why I always say that it's on my dime, and y'all can ride along). The risk paid off.............even though (sly grin) I figured it would. Remember that I regularly make bushings with .005 clearance....albeit much shorter bushings.

Now, as far as the operational effects of this huge clearance.................. The end of the axle moves much more than it would have, if the clearance was .002 But, how close do you machine something before it becomes unusable. Or requires additional specialized machining to make it viable.

Never fear though.............this thing will start eating itself the moment it goes in the field. It's the nature of the game. And it's the reason the original bushings failed. Stuff happens.

But I guaran-f'n-tee you, that it will be better than this

You use the thread dial just like normal threading. I don't get this " reamer" thing, sounds like nonsense to me, especially if you groove the bushing. The whole idea is to hold small pockets of grease, especially where there is minimal rotation. Any groove to hold grease is way better than what you have now. Hopefully you put a generous chamfer at the end of the grease hole to hold a little more grease.

[farmersammm]

I don't believe you understand. I just showed you a video of a lathe cutting the biggest tpi it's capable of cutting............................using a threading dial.

The only way to decrease the tpi is to do the feed by hand. No threading dial involved. If you do a hand feed, the threading dial becomes meaningless because the threading dial depends on the leadscrew for a start position.

[farmersammm]

You could do some sort of exotic change gear substitution, but that's off somewhere in la la land.

[farmersammm]

Now you're getting me confused.

To do a decreased tpi, you'd have to disengage the leadscrew, and turn the damn chuck by hand, while turning the longitudinal feed wheel by hand. All of this completely negates the threading dial.

[farmersammm]

The leadscrew movement, combined with the chuck movement, gives you the desired thread. The change gears change the leadscrew movement per revolution of the chuck.

[farmersammm]

Yes, you can get back to an original position by reversing the leadscrew, But, you won't be able to duplicate the feed rate once you try to do a repeat pass.

[whtbaron]

The Farmer's Friend
or insert any other kind
of equipment owner

Double setting pistol grip with a whip hose will get you into a lot more tight locations... available for a small donation at your local John Deere dealer...


Notice the dual setting on the handle for volume/pressure.... very handy.... as is the push button air bleed.

[farmersammm]

So that's why Deere's are painted green!!!! Gets ya used to digging green outta your wallet

[farmersammm]

It's a Pavlovian sorta thing

[farmersammm]

Oliver got the green paint because they were out of every other color in the paint store

[whtbaron]

I salivate every time I walk in the door.... bill at the end of the month is an entirely different reaction though...

[whtbaron]

Oliver got the green paint because they were out of every other color in the paint store

They could have went pink...