Oil cooled inverter welder?

[hunterc]

I've got a Miller diversion 180 and I don't like how short of a duty cycle it has. Would I be able to increase the duty cycle if I could provide a better means of cooling the components?

Similar to how computers can be submerged in a mineral oil bath using a radiator to maintain a stable temperature.

[precivilization]

Sell the diversion if you are constantly hitting the duty cycle and get a used better Welder

[John T]

I've got a Miller diversion 180 and I don't like how short of a duty cycle it has. Would I be able to increase the duty cycle if I could provide a better means of cooling the components?.

Yes,
a 5 gallon bucket of cold water should do the trick.

[Sberry]

I agree with the ice water. Put it in the kegerator.

[bead-boy]

How many times have you hit the duty cycle ?

[hunterc]

How many times have you hit the duty cycle ?

I've only ever actually hit it twice. I'm very careful to avoid it now.

I kind of wanted to make a project out of this, I've done something similar in the past to my buzzbox. Made a new case that allowed me tk submerge the transformer in oil. That modification allowed me to forget about duty cycle altogether.

To do this to my inverter welder would be just as straight forward, but my concern is that maybe heat isn't the only thing i should try to take into account regarding the wear on the components.

Could anyone think of any other factors that could contribute to a premature failure of the components other than the build up of heat?

[tapwelder]

Air cooled torch?

[hunterc]

Air cooled torch?

Yea I have an air cooled torch right now.
I've got a chiller, so im going to buy a water cooled torch soon.

I was thinking a water cooled torch wouldn't actually effect the duty cycle of the power supply, would it?

[smithdoor]

The mig guns very hot the long you weld.
Most gun you can not touch even with gloves on after welding over 10 minutes.

I alway purchase a large gun to help the heating of gun.

Dave

I've got a Miller diversion 180 and I don't like how short of a duty cycle it has. Would I be able to increase the duty cycle if I could provide a better means of cooling the components?

Similar to how computers can be submerged in a mineral oil bath using a radiator to maintain a stable temperature.

[tapwelder]

If you are doing that much welding and you increase that duty cycle, then the air cooled torch becomes the weak link. You won’t be able to hold it without cooling it. Some folk dunk the torch in a pale of water to cool it.

Good question.

[bead-boy]

I've only ever actually hit it twice. I'm very careful to avoid it now.

Just keep avoiding it and forget the rest. Put the expense and effort toward acquiring a bigger better welder with more duty cycle.

[Sberry]

I am waiting to see how well this works before I try it. Post up a couple pics.

[danielplace]

Water cool a fuse body and it still blows at about the same. Inverter is a fuse.

Forget the idea and save for a real machine that produces the duty cycle you need.

[52 Ford]

Water cool a fuse body and it still blows at about the same. Inverter is a fuse.

Forget the idea and save for a real machine that produces the duty cycle you need.

No it won't. Fuses pop when they get hot. If you prevent a fusible link, like piece of wire from ever getting hot enough to melt, it won't melt... if you prevent an inverter from overheating... well... it won't overheat.

Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

[52 Ford]

To OP.

DO NOT SUBMERGE THE WELDER IN MINERAL OIL! It's an absolute MESS!

Instead, you can add better, aftermarket cooling fans (I suggest looking at Noctua fans, very high quality and quiet). If there are any heatsinks, you can pull them off and replace the thermal compound with a high performance thermal compound (the difference is ENORMOUS between good and bad thermal compound. Avoid thermal pads where you can, too)

Oh, and don't mind the brown color on the Noctua fans. Kinda the price you pay for really nice fans (SUPER quiet, too). The (debateably) ugly color is sorta their signature look. They recently started making some in black I think.

Oh, and if you go with 4 pin computer fans (I recommend you do), pick up a fan controller. The kind that fits in a 5-1/4" drive bay on a computer tower. Pick up a 5-1/4" enclosure and attach it to the machine somewhere.

Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

[Louie1961]

The Miller Diversion is a useless POS in my opinion, and I wouldn't waste any time or money trying to improve it. 180 amps is really not enough for most aluminum projects, and if all you need to weld is steel, there are plenty of very inexpensive DC only TIG welders out there with pulse and other features the Diversion lacks, for a lot less money than you will spend trying to upgrade that unit. To me, the idea is just a waste of time and money. Move on to a better welder, not just with a higher output and better duty cycle, but something with pulse, adjustable pre-flow/post-flow, etc. Go get a Primeweld if you are price sensitive.

[SweetMK]

We changed the amperage rating of an electrical drive by simply changing the squirrel cage blower motors from 1725 RPM to 3600 RPM.
The change in speed was a phenomenal difference in the amount of air moved.

(We were developing a drive for a 6000 volt , 26,000 horsepower electric motor.)

This change was made because there was no room for larger blowers.
The only downside was the 3600 RPM blowers made a LOT of noise.

Find a much larger source of air for your cooling.

[52 Ford]

We changed the amperage rating of an electrical drive by simply changing the squirrel cage blower motors from 1725 RPM to 3600 RPM.
The change in speed was a phenomenal difference in the amount of air moved.

(We were developing a drive for a 6000 volt , 26,000 horsepower electric motor.)

This change was made because there was no room for larger blowers.
The only downside was the 3600 RPM blowers made a LOT of noise.

Find a much larger source of air for your cooling.

3228.333 Amps @ 6,000V. That's a big motor. Over 80KA at 240V to get the same HP.

Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

[danielplace]

No it won't. Fuses pop when they get hot. If you prevent a fusible link, like piece of wire from ever getting hot enough to melt, it won't melt... if you prevent an inverter from overheating... well... it won't overheat.

I surely meant the outer body of the fuse not the actual element inside.

But even still .....

Damn fuse box was froze outside and the fuse didn't blow and burnt up all the wiring in my house. You have never heard that. That is with element itself also at same freezing temperature.

Or- I can't believe I still blew the fuse with it out here almost buried in the snow.

Same for this. The parts could be at zero degrees and still burn up if you just keep pushing it.

Even a water cooled torch is not worth the trouble one a machine with direct wired cable to the torch never mind cooling the machine.

[MinnesotaDave]

To OP.

DO NOT SUBMERGE THE WELDER IN MINERAL OIL! It's an absolute MESS!

Instead, you can add better, aftermarket cooling fans (I suggest looking at Noctua fans, very high quality and quiet). If there are any heatsinks, you can pull them off and replace the thermal compound with a high performance thermal compound (the difference is ENORMOUS between good and bad thermal compound. Avoid thermal pads where you can, too)

Oh, and don't mind the brown color on the Noctua fans. Kinda the price you pay for really nice fans (SUPER quiet, too). The (debateably) ugly color is sorta their signature look. They recently started making some in black I think.

Oh, and if you go with 4 pin computer fans (I recommend you do), pick up a fan controller. The kind that fits in a 5-1/4" drive bay on a computer tower. Pick up a 5-1/4" enclosure and attach it to the machine somewhere.

Sent from my Lincoln Buzzbox using Tapatalk

Extra fans works good.
My old boss took fans out of a microwave to increase the duty cycle on his miller thunderbolt stick welder.
Looked funny putting them on the outside, but "you can't drive a paint job" right?

The Miller Diversion is a useless POS in my opinion, and I wouldn't waste any time or money trying to improve it. 180 amps is really not enough for most aluminum projects, and if all you need to weld is steel, there are plenty of very inexpensive DC only TIG welders out there with pulse and other features the Diversion lacks, for a lot less money than you will spend trying to upgrade that unit. To me, the idea is just a waste of time and money. Move on to a better welder, not just with a higher output and better duty cycle, but something with pulse, adjustable pre-flow/post-flow, etc. Go get a Primeweld if you are price sensitive.

I'd be really unhappy with 180 amps of AC tig at low duty cycle.
I like the nearly unlimited usable duty cycle of my Syncrowave 350

In general, I think miller did a disservice making the Diversion machine.

[precivilization]

In general, I think miller did a disservice making the Diversion machine.

It would've been alright for the right price, but they are asking alot for it.

[hunterc]

I agree the diversion is a piece of ****, but I inherited the machine from my older brother when he passed on and it's the machine I learned on.

The general consensus seems to be just grin and bear it until I can find a deal on better machine so I'll probably just take y'alls advice.

Probably keep this machine in storage and give it to my nephew when he's a bit older.

[Louie1961]

The Primeweld 225 is $869. It is 100 times better than the Diversion in my opinion.

[bead-boy]

and give it to my nephew when he's a bit older.

Fantastic idea. Pay it forward

[Willie B]

How many times have you hit the duty cycle ?

Mine circa 2012 Diversion 180 didn't exactly turn off as it approached duty cycle. It tapered down amperage instead.
I bought it for aluminum & early recognized the welder was severely limited in duty cycle. Look at the chart, at 180 amps duty cycle is between 9 & 10. 10 minutes welding at full rated amperage you are limited to less than 60 seconds.

I kicked mine to the curb. I shopped & asked questions of everybody I could find who would know. Most said the same thing: Syncrowave 250. Used Syncrowaves sold then for $5000. I ultimately ended up with a Dialarc 250 HF. What duty cycle? AC it was rated 310 amps at 60%.

These days I have a Dynasty 280 DX. It is rated 280 amps 60% duty cycle. 5/8" aluminum I need helium & preheat.

Aluminum is power thirsty. Diversion 180 is a great auto body welder, less so with aluminum.

You will upgrade. Do it soon, life is short.