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Thread: Redface- Red-Blue face

  1. #26
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Id like to find a short hood so I could compare the differences to my red face machines. My '63 burns 6010s as good as 7018s on my '80 green light machine. So smooth and easy.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
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    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
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  2. #27
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Ocvs are a big thing with the comparison, I like a short cause you run it in 3rd for everything from 3/32-3/16 7018


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  3. #28
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    wow got suck up vortex/black hole again,even Andex responded

  4. #29
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Zombie thread lolz
    AWS CWI xxxx2171
    1968 SA200

    Quote Originally Posted by WelderMike
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    Nice work!
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  5. #30
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Hi. Could anyone tell me anything about a 1952 shorthand with a number of 2365 on it ? I am trying to figure out if it a red face or not.
    I have to admit, I'm confused on the topic and have heard from some old timers that all of the SA-200's (Red face & Black face) had all copper windings in the generators and the black face's had aluminum or copper coated aluminum in the armatures. This was supposed to be the only difference from what I have been able to gather to this point anyway.

    If anyone can help that would be great as this seems to be very confusing reading through many, many different comments and opinions or many different folks here.

    Thanks for any help trying to understand this. I just don't want to waste money on a project I would like to take on.

    Macsr

  6. #31
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    You should have started a new thread. This one is 5 years old. It's short hood not shorthand. Red faces were built in the 60's however the first long hoods in 1958/59 were basically the same but had a black faceplate. I think early 70's machines before the octagon barrel (around 1973) went to black face plates too but the same as a red face. Red/blue face machines were apparently made for the military and had everything balanced. Any SA200 with a round barrel is the most desirable as they have all copper windings and a 1952 short hood would qualify. Might require a lot of work though. Red face machines have 5 amperages ranges and the best overall arc characteristics for 6010 or 7018. Short hoods are better for 6010 and not as nice for 7018.
    Last edited by Welder Dave; 11-28-2020 at 06:50 PM.

  7. #32
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Welder Dave,

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions !

    And, thank you for the great information. I apologize for the "typos" as I was trying to write on my small screen cell phone but yes, I did mean to type "short hood". Sorry.

    I'm new to this site and didn't know how to start a "new thread", sorry again.
    I'll have more questions on this unit probably. But can you tell me what the # 2365 that I was given off of the unit may mean and,....is this a all copper wound generator and armature ? (It is a round barrel) And, if a unit has a black face plate on it, does it absolutely mean it is cannot be a "Red Face" all copper wound unit ? Or are just all "Red face plate" units the Copper wound units ?

    I was also told by the current owner that is stated life as a short hood and the prior owner converted it to a " long style " unit. I am going to look at it in person this week.

    Any suggestions on where to look for certain ID numbers on the engine & generator etc that can help further ID it would be greatly appreciated Sir.

    Thank you in advance for any further assistance you may be able to provide Sir.

    Mike

  8. #33
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Sounds like that machine is a mixed bag if the face plate has the code 2365, in a long hood frame, because I have a 1955 short hood with the code 2365 on it. Look on the generator housing for numbers stamped on the starter side of the machine, probably painted over a little, that will tell which generator it is. If you find four numbers, that would be a code number. If you find the letter A-xxxxxx, that will be the serial number that was stamped on most short hoods.

    I keep hearing the same old rumor about Red/Blue face machines being made for the military and how they where a balanced machine? Though the Lincoln service manual states as them being the same as any other Redface according to the wiring diagram specs, and load testing?
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

  9. #34
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Maintainence and everything else likely wouldn't change because it was balanced. I saw a thread awhile ago by someone who sounded pretty knowledgeable and the red/blue face for the military is the most logical. If they were made for a large contractor someone would know which contractor.

  10. #35
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    I'm not sure if the Red/Blue face machines have a flex plate on the main armature or not, but my 63 Redface has the armature bolted straight to the crankshaft and it very balanced and smooth. I'm keeping my eye out for one of those Red/Blue face machines, I really want see what there all about.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

  11. #36
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    isn't there anyone that worked at Lincoln on here during those years to clear the red/blue face debate up ? i would think that if they were made for the military those machines would have been painted olive drab, just about everything i owned that was military from those years,(air compressor, generator, tool boxes) were painted olive drab

  12. #37
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    There was a guy at Lincoln that knew what every code meant but he's long retired and don't think he's with us anymore. Changing a face plate isn't a big deal. Changing paint colors might be. Lincoln is all about branding. I think Red-D-Arc is the only company that Lincoln has made welders for but they've bought thousands and thousands of welders from Lincoln over the years. Red-D-Arc was originally a Lincoln dealer. Back in the early 80's I was looking at SA200's. They had a list with pretty much every year machine made from the mid 60's up to current machines. The list was probably 5 pages or more long. Red-D-Arc has got a lot bigger since then too.

  13. #38
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by BYW200 View Post
    I'm not sure if the Red/Blue face machines have a flex plate on the main armature or not, but my 63 Redface has the armature bolted straight to the crankshaft and it very balanced and smooth. I'm keeping my eye out for one of those Red/Blue face machines, I really want see what there all about.
    Name:  2203.jpg
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Size:  192.5 KB this is my 1963 red/blue face Name:  2207.jpg
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Size:  27.4 KBName:  2209.jpg
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Size:  17.7 KB and has a flex plate...you take out the bolts and turn it a 1/4 turn to unhook it(nice to know but can be a pain gaining that knowledge as it's not in my manuals !)...It does have weights welded on the inside of the flywheel...Michael
    Last edited by R&I; 02-27-2021 at 11:55 PM.

  14. #39
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by Macsr View Post
    Hi. Could anyone tell me anything about a 1952 shorthand with a number of 2365 on it ? I am trying to figure out if it a red face or not.
    I have to admit, I'm confused on the topic and have heard from some old timers that all of the SA-200's (Red face & Black face) had all copper windings in the generators and the black face's had aluminum or copper coated aluminum in the armatures. This was supposed to be the only difference from what I have been able to gather to this point anyway.

    If anyone can help that would be great as this seems to be very confusing reading through many, many different comments and opinions or many different folks here.

    Thanks for any help trying to understand this. I just don't want to waste money on a project I would like to take on.

    Macsr
    All round barrel SA200s are "Red face" (i.e. copper wound) octagon barrel were made because Aluminum windings need the extra room but some of the first were supposedly copper wound and alot were later rewound in copper by their owners....if it's round it's copper wound because Aluminum windings can't physically fit

  15. #40
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    i bought a red face / blue dial 4816 code , sa200 for $300, it wasnt running when i got it , has a F162 motor, but the barrel 's number code number is 5604, must have been swapped out at some point in time

  16. #41
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Thanks R&I for the clarification. Is your machine the code 4150? All the later SA machines I've split had the flex plate. I've always wondered why the 63' Armature I have, was bolted straight to the crank.
    Last edited by BYW200; 03-06-2021 at 03:33 AM.
    SA 200s : 1944 1945 1963 1965 1969
    1981 SA 250 D3.152 DC only
    2004 Ranger 10,000
    Lincoln Pro Mig 135
    Miller Load Bank
    Hobart GPB 258 Pipeliner
    Hobart GPB 261 Mainliner
    Hobart Airforce 250
    Everlast PA 200st

  17. #42
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    BYW200..Yes mine is code 4150....on the plate and stamped on the barrel... On the road welding and had a hell of a time getting on with my Nextbook...I have a love\hate relationship with computers and I don't know (or want to know) how to do this crap on my phone.... I'm an old Norwegian who thinks a phone is for talking

  18. #43
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Quote Originally Posted by gmcdeadhead View Post
    isn't there anyone that worked at Lincoln on here during those years to clear the red/blue face debate up ? i would think that if they were made for the military those machines would have been painted olive drab, just about everything i owned that was military from those years,(air compressor, generator, tool boxes) were painted olive drab
    . I sanded mine down and it's Lincoln gray all the way to the metal (well, after you get through the light gray stuff)...no olive drab anywhere... I have a 600cfm air compressor that was military and that has military tags all over the place and was olive drab EVERYWHERE....Michael

  19. #44
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    Re: Redface- Red-Blue face

    Lincoln is all about efficiency. It might be Lincoln grey and that's it. If used on ships, ships are grey.

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