Jump right in dude the waters fine!!!!!!!! You and only you can find your niche/specialty....( what you like to do, can do efficiently, make money/profit at doing and not a lot of competition around doing it) I'm a misc. metals fabricator/erector , pipe weldor, trailer hitch fabricator/repairer and heavy equipment repair weldor..( mainly earth engaging parts) .....In my 35+ years I've been a heavy steel erector( union Ironworkers ), crane service , truck and trailer axle spindle service and hot shot trucking co.)

 

There's lots of us. We build whatever someone will pay for!

 

ditto, not just build but repair.

what you can produce depends on the tools and talent you have at your disposal.

all my tools/ equipment, and stock on hand that have been acquired have been due to customer requests and input.

 

Everyone has their own thing. I'm finding out I'm more of a repair guy myself. I've tried making stuff and furniture doesn't really sell here.

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A rambling answer to the OP follows. I'll preface it by saying that even though I'm just a little guy, I don't talk on the internet about the nitty-gritty of how I make money. A lot of blood, sweat, and tears went into learning how to make a profit and the details of that information belong to me alone. Not trying to be mean, just explaining why I'm not saying, "Make Widget X or provide Service Y and everyone will come flocking to your door!!!!!!!" That said, I'm fascinated by business in general and will give you some of my thoughts on it.

First, I have done my absolute best to never, ever set foot in the residential market. There are a couple guys here who do high-end residential work, and my hat is off to them. I just cannot deal with that specific type of customer and I know that it's a failing on my part. Luckily, there are plenty of guys around who like to make handrails.

I will also say that if the thing you're making can be made by a guy in China, or in Mexico, or halfway across our own country and be indistinguishable from what *you* made, you've set yourself up to fall victim to economies of scale. A one-man show who wants to *remain* a one-man show, as many of us do, needs to play to his strengths.

We have a few guys here who run larger shops. Obviously the profit and risk potential goes up with the larger investment required. Have a plan for where you want to end up, and make sure all of your steps are heading in that direction. Don't get sidetracked. There are a lot of really excellent welders who couldn't / can't / won't make it in business for themselves. Running a business is it's own challenge, completely separate from being able to do the work in the trenches. I came really close to failure a couple of times from bad business decisions, and I know I'm not the only one. It's a pretty rare dude / dudette who can strike out on their own without trouble.

As others have said, you'll have to work to find your own spot in the market. One of the problems with welding is the low barriers to entry. Got an engine drive and a truck or trailer? Or a workbench and a welder? Presto, you're in business! But so is everybody else with that same equipment. And trust me, it's a revolving door. New guys are getting into it at the same rate other slightly less new guys are getting out. So the pricing at the bottom of the market never really changes -- it's artificially low because new guys think they have to charge less. The same group of customers is buying these new guys' services.

What you have to do is figure out how to rise above that swirling cesspool into the area where you're dealing with quality customers who want to pay fair wages in exchange for quality work. There is no one answer to this. Some people throw money and manpower at the problem until they're a big enough player to limit their competition by sheer size; others find a particular product or service that they're exceptionally good at and capitalize on their individual knowledge.

Finally, the two over-arching things in business that will contribute to your rise and / or fall is who your customers are, and what you do with your money. Choose the right customers and learn how to hold onto your money and you'll be on a good path. There are a lot of other really important things, but messing up on these two things will limit and, sooner rather than later, destroy, your business.

 

This is the best f**kin' "ramble " I've read in awhile.

Good advice to wannabe entrepreneurs in any field.

Terry

 

As a hobby welder who has aspirations of being more it is something I have thought about. Luckily for my I am already self-employeed and have been for 21 years now. The only thing that has held me back in starting in welding is my confidence in my skills.

The number #1 rule for all businesses to truly succeed in any industry is to have the mindset of helping someone. Truly having the desire to help someone, and solve their problem will automatically put you in the top 10%. I've studied this in my own business. Whenever I stop putting that number #1 my business goes down, and no amount of advertising, sales gimmicks or anything else will bring it back. Focus on making money to make the house payment forget it. I might as well call the bank and tell them it's going to be late. Focus on helping people, and forgetting about my problems or my desire to make a profit, and I have more work then I can handle.

#2 - Know what YOU need to charge to make a living before you ever talk to a customer. This means sit down with paper and write out all of your possible expense before you even plug a welder in. This includes all of your business and personal expense. And don't forget the point of being in business is to make a profit, add that in. And be realistic about how many PRODUCTION hours you can charge per day, week, and year. I think too many people don't realize how many hours out of the year are lost, unproductive/billable. Free estimates take time. Taking care of the books takes time. Just answering the phone takes more time then people realize. Then you have time down for equipment repairs, getting supplies, and a big one LEARNING A NEW SKILL OR PIECE OF EQUIPMENT. Sick days, holidays, time to take kids to the doctors or school function... An old timer once told me to figure your hourly costs off of 1,000 billed hours for the year. I always thought that was ridicules, but after 21 years, I have found that to be about spot on.

Business isn't rocket science. It's very simple. Knowing what to do is the easy part. The actual following through is the hard part. I'm happy to share any details you want.

 

Tbone nailed it

For me, I never got welding full time to pan out.
When I worked solely for myself buying broken cars to repair and sell, I wanted to be welding, but it was a small sideline.

Welding has never grown past a sideline for me.
I've made enough that it's kept me from going under many times, but still a sideline.

 

Just because you can weld doesn't mean you can run a business. Plenty of people have found out the two skills are miles apart. You need to know what the goal is, are you wanting to be huge or just comfortable. The bigger you get the less time you spend doing the work and the more you spend on managing what you have. If you don't like people, can't deal with a certain entitled segment or can't stand regulations, inspectors etc. take heart, you're not alone. An advantage to doing your own thing is that if you insist on only doing you're own thing you might not get rich but you'll be alot happier. I see guys doing stuff that they really are not prepared or trained to handle and are in so deep they have to take a stab at it. That's a miserable life and most of the time they end up really frustrated. Business is hard, if it was easy everyone would be driving thier own ship. Pay heed to Tbone, he's been there and done that and smart enough to admit he messed up. I believe that along with all kinds of attributes and skills you need to really know yourself and set realistic goals. The only way to do that is to be honest and do your homework.

 

Everyone wants to be self employed and be their own boss, when in realty every customer that walks thru your door is your "boss".
They may not always be rite, but they are always the "Boss".

 

Look at products already in production or that have since built are no longer in production and fill the gap for the need. Some products actually can be modified and made better and there could be a market for your own product that is yet to be invented.

 

There are a lot of good replies here. Read them all.

Once you start your own business, regardless of the type of business, your number one job is that of "businessman", not "welder", "machinist", "house painter", or etc. An excellent tradesman who is a poor businessman won't be in business very long, but I have known several poor tradesmen that were excellent businessmen and their business has flourished.

As for what to do? That is a local issue. If you did the best architectural details and charged out at $200/hour you could get every commission in the entire state of Kansas and still starve to death. But if you were great at building pipe corrals you would never be out of work.

When you think of what you want to do/make/repair, think in terms of making a bigger pie. If you have to steal someone's else piece of the pie, that someone else has already been there and knows what to do and how to do it. He will let you steal his unprofitable, slow paying, and pita customers without to much of a fight, knowing full well those customers may put you out of business.

 

Everything that's been said sounds good to me. My wife has a cousin that owns his own business. He does general repair and welding and is also a preacher. He told me once that welders and preachers are not business men. He does supply for his family and does a service for his community but he is not wealthy. By the way he does not get paid for his preaching. Just adding my $0.02.

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Blue, lots of the posts above contain great information, reliable experience, and reports that hold rules of thumb learned (at high cost probably) by the poster.

One thing I'll suggest reading them is a repeat of the post where the locale, your neighborhood plays a roll in what you can offer? For example, it appears there's not much high end architectural detail metal work in Kansas but there are lots of pipe corrals? SO I'd translate that into - first step is to define what is 'needed' or 'wanted' in your neck of the woods and next to determine if you can produce competitively- that item. If so? Can the Chicoms provide that item the HomeTrainStationCo.? cheaper than you can?

Next thing, I think has been said in different ways is: your post seems to request others' designs be given to you? Maybe not what you're asking but it struck me odd that you'd post a request to see others' products? At least that's how I read it? I'll assume you're NOT really asking for wwebber's plans to be emailed to your address?

Now, my prime point, not fully explored here but at least hinted at by others: I've made my main living by design innovation. When I had a fab shop, most work came because of my designs. When I had a welded aluminum boat building shop, almost all the work came to get my boat designs. When I was doing industrial controls systems for the oil and gas business- I know the majority of the work came to me so I'd design and build control automation systems for clients.

Therefore .... while others' experiences are valid and I'd ask you to weigh them in your considerations... my version of finding a niche is the original concept and final design element can attract people to your business. IF you don't have developed design skills, then you might want to explore those who do have those skills- assuming your original post about products that are successful is still operative- so you can build from their designs?

Example: If you show up to the weekend swap meet/craft fair with a dozen steel panels that were cut on your new plaz table that you cut using a cut and paste file that came with the NC table? then you should expect to get "20 bucks each" which will not make wages, materials, table time, painting time..... costs! Why?

Everybody at the craft fair has the same cookie cutter stuff- unless you set yourself apart (using your own innovative designs or hiring/partnering/buying designs) you're confined to the low end of the market.

On the other hand if you're able to draw, draft, and perhaps NC cut your own files- you're able to command a much higher price for similar art/products/fabrications compared to the cut and paste images so commonly offered.

I'm using NC/plaz table work as an example, not suggesting that is what you plan. If your products are not unique it is likely they'll be very marginally profitable. (however) If your skills allow you to join the architectural market, not likely if you're just starting? then again, the reason they pay more is the amount of money spent on high quality design.

I'm trying to both summarize some of the remarks above and encourage you to self-assess honestly while doing real to life, honest market exploration: doing both before you get started can save lots of money and potentially wasted time.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin

 

Blue, lots of the posts above contain great information, reliable experience, and reports that hold rules of thumb learned (at high cost probably) by the poster.

One thing I'll suggest reading them is a repeat of the post where the locale, your neighborhood plays a roll in what you can offer? For example, it appears there's not much high end architectural detail metal work in Kansas but there are lots of pipe corrals? SO I'd translate that into - first step is to define what is 'needed' or 'wanted' in your neck of the woods and next to determine if you can produce competitively- that item. If so? Can the Chicoms provide that item the HomeTrainStationCo.? cheaper than you can?

Next thing, I think has been said in different ways is: your post seems to request others' designs be given to you? Maybe not what you're asking but it struck me odd that you'd post a request to see others' products? At least that's how I read it? I'll assume you're NOT really asking for wwebber's plans to be emailed to your address?

Now, my prime point, not fully explored here but at least hinted at by others: I've made my main living by design innovation. When I had a fab shop, most work came because of my designs. When I had a welded aluminum boat building shop, almost all the work came to get my boat designs. When I was doing industrial controls systems for the oil and gas business- I know the majority of the work came to me so I'd design and build control automation systems for clients.

Therefore .... while others' experiences are valid and I'd ask you to weigh them in your considerations... my version of finding a niche is the original concept and final design element can attract people to your business. IF you don't have developed design skills, then you might want to explore those who do have those skills- assuming your original post about products that are successful is still operative- so you can build from their designs?

Example: If you show up to the weekend swap meet/craft fair with a dozen steel panels that were cut on your new plaz table that you cut using a cut and paste file that came with the NC table? then you should expect to get "20 bucks each" which will not make wages, materials, table time, painting time..... costs! Why?

Everybody at the craft fair has the same cookie cutter stuff- unless you set yourself apart (using your own innovative designs or hiring/partnering/buying designs) you're confined to the low end of the market.

On the other hand if you're able to draw, draft, and perhaps NC cut your own files- you're able to command a much higher price for similar art/products/fabrications compared to the cut and paste images so commonly offered.

I'm using NC/plaz table work as an example, not suggesting that is what you plan. If your products are not unique it is likely they'll be very marginally profitable. (however) If your skills allow you to join the architectural market, not likely if you're just starting? then again, the reason they pay more is the amount of money spent on high quality design.

I'm trying to both summarize some of the remarks above and encourage you to self-assess honestly while doing real to life, honest market exploration: doing both before you get started can save lots of money and potentially wasted time.

Cheers,
Kevin Morin

As I read this post, the first thing I thought when I read the first bold part: It's actually common in the CNC Plasma world. Everybody seems to think plasma tables are "the easy button to quick money" at craft fairs. At least the majority of the people on various forums/cnc groups. They aren't looking to improve their skills or anything. They buy an entry level machine, and the first thing they ask, "What sells?" But they aren't fabricators, welders, or anything, they are accountants, they are restaurant workers, they are grocery store clerks, etc. Everything but welders, fabricators, skilled trades. They may make a bunch of money on the side, then they are back the next year, "What sells?". Within a few years, many sell the machines.

When I went to school for welding, I had already been a mechanic for 10 years and was had been involved with motorsports for a few years. We had a CNC Plasma for our welding program. The instructors used it as a tool to teach/reinforce blueprint reading/drawing. Everybody else in my class was part of two groups: younger guys who just did the minimum to get by, or the older guys who wanted to be big money pipe welders. Neither of those groups showed interest in the CNC, just did plans because it was required. I saw it, and my first reaction was "I could make this... I could make that..." I downloaded a free 2D CAD program, and I ran with it. Right out of school, I landed a CNC plasma job that payed well more than all my other classmates. I've been in production/manufacturing for many years (CNC and welder), and now back to automotive, but more on the offroad fabrication side. Now I play with a few 3D CAD programs for fun. I'm still young enough to still work hard, but I'm getting old enough that it's taking a toll, and I recognize that at some point I need to slow down and plan for that chapter in my life.

Will I go into my own business? Probably not, but I may do it on the side. Prototyping and small run production. The one thing I refuse to do is craft shows.

Finding your niche is definitely up there on the priority list. Setting yourself apart is also up there. As for running a business directly, I cannot give any advice. But I've seen so many entry level businesses close doors after a few years, whether it be automotive/offroad or CNC for craft shows.

As for continuing education, always learn. The local community college has a "Workforce Training" program. They have business classes, some for cheap. They are always changing. When I was a mechanic, there was a class for bidding jobs. I didn't see a need at the time. It's not available now, but I wish I would have taken it. Infact, there is currently a class for prototyping with 3D CAD, perfect for me.
https://northidaho.augusoft.net/index.cfm?fuseaction=1010

Now that I live in Atlanta, the community colleges in the North Metro area don't have programs like this. You have to be in a degree program to access classes like this.

 

Tbone ,hit the nail on the head .
I'm in business for myself and what worked for me getting started out was to eat , sleep and breath my business from conception to reality. Learning quickly from mistakes and constantly searching for new ways to make money, although i never really made any money until it hit me one day and i figured out what my grandfather ment when he told me he could make more money with a pencil and piece of paper than working his tail off . When i applied his mentality and (educated myself) about how to actually manage a business , i quadrupled my income overnight (of course i had to find a new customer base). That was about 4 years ago and today i am actually starting to buy out some of my competition.
The moral to this story is to educate your self every chance you get , preferably before you jump out and make a bunch of mistakes as i did .
The biggest piece of advice i could give is to avoid working by the hour (at best all you'll make is your hourly rate and the mark up on material) find a customer base with a need for the service your good at providing , figure out how to quote that work , get it done quickly and move on to the next project. That is how you make a good paycheck every week .

 

The biggest piece of advice i could give is to avoid working by the hour (at best all you'll make is your hourly rate and the mark up on material) find a customer base with a need for the service your good at providing , figure out how to quote that work , get it done quickly and move on to the next project. That is how you make a good paycheck every week .

YES! When I started out I would do mobile work, as well as jobs in my small shop. CNC plasma, fab etc.... After a few months, I took my mobile rig apart. and quit doing it all together. I could not comfortably bid mobile jobs, because of the unknowns. But I regularly was finishing jobs in house, in half the time I bid. Meaning I was getting paid for "20hrs" in a 10 hr day...
also, Contacts are huge. Talk to anyone you know who is in business or might be in a position where they would hire your services. And then go find more of those people.

 

There are a lot of good points on here. I've been in business for 7 yrs now and am still learning about my business. What makes money and what doesn't. Its hard the first few years because you don't realize how much money you spend just to wake up in the morning. insurance, shop rent, truck payment, gas bottles, welding wire, equipment financing.... The list goes on and on. In the beginning as usual I took any job and charged basically nothing, thinking it was great but soon realized I was making no money. After a while I realized why my competitors charge what they do. About 2 years ago I had to cut off 80 percent of my customers because they were nickle and dimers expecting me to come on site for 100 bucks to weld some rusted garbage together. Mainly landscape maintenance guys. Unfortunately overhead of a business just doesn't allow this kind of work. Now I focus on structural work, stairs, railing, heavy equipment and custom Fabrications​. Good luck to you. Being in business is hard. You basically work every waking hour . That doesn't mean you are welding those hrs but you will be bidding jobs, doing estimates, fixing your own equipment, Rearranging the shop. Doing drawing for things you are making, ordering material and parts and again the list goes on and on. I'm certainly no business expert because I basically just scrape by but find out your competitors rates and charge that or you will soon be out of business.

 

Yep, whatever someone pays you to make, if you are capable of doing it or even want to do it that is. Be careful not to bite off more than you can chew and always charge enough that you are happy to do the job. You dont want to hate every second of what you are doing because you didnt charge enough or let the customer talk your price down to something you are unhappy with. I did that a couple of times when i started and know better now. Id rather walk away from work than being tied up with something im not making enough to do when i could be somewhere else working for a good customer. Also its all what you find yourself best at. I will do repairs and thats fine and dandy but i prefer fabricating stuff out of raw materials but again, its whatever people will pay you to do that you are able to do. Also if its something you dont wanna **** with , charge a lot so that if they say yes, you at least feel its worthwhile. I personally try to never climb under someones car because its hard to maneuver under cars without it being on a lift and wearing my hood. You can find an old leather hood i guess but its hard to get your stinger into position too. Not to mention, the shower of hot molten metal.

 

Get out there and take every single job you can get. You will learn more about success, failure, what pays and what doesn't, your preferred customer, and cost of business doing it this way over a course of a year than any amount of advice. Clientele is different in every area, see what all is out there.

In my first year I did some jobs where I made a killing and some where I was working for peanuts. I underestimated one job so bad I ended up working for like $4 an hour for 2 months. That was rough. Learned a lot and I don't make those mistakes anymore. It was for a "big, important client" took a while to realize how toxic they were to my business before I told em to pound sand.

 

Thats when you break out the TIG my friend

 

xxxxxxxxxxx

 

YES! When I started out I would do mobile work, as well as jobs in my small shop. CNC plasma, fab etc.... After a few months, I took my mobile rig apart. and quit doing it all together. I could not comfortably bid mobile jobs, because of the unknowns. But I regularly was finishing jobs in house, in half the time I bid. Meaning I was getting paid for "20hrs" in a 10 hr day...
also, Contacts are huge. Talk to anyone you know who is in business or might be in a position where they would hire your services. And then go find more of those people.

dosswelding and camjeep

I agree. Ive been in shops and construction for about the past five years.
I am Interested in building some type of product to be able to sell to customers. Maybe along the lines of Fork Lift buckets, Farm Gates, Tables Maybe some CNC Work. All I got right now, as far as my business is an ahp200x a grinder and a work bench. Now I'm looking for the customer

A buddy of mine has a small Sign fabrication shop in ATL GA. 2 employees as of right now. Business is good. He said he's going to bring me in for metal work. Im trying to work out a deal where I can get paid a commission on each project. If not i will continue my day time welding and fabrication job until i get customers and am starting to make money on the side.

 

dosswelding and camjeep

I agree. Ive been in shops and construction for about the past five years.
I am Interested in building some type of product to be able to sell to customers. Maybe along the lines of Fork Lift buckets, Farm Gates, Tables Maybe some CNC Work. All I got right now, as far as my business is an ahp200x a grinder and a work bench. Now I'm looking for the customer

A buddy of mine has a small Sign fabrication shop in ATL GA. 2 employees as of right now. Business is good. He said he's going to bring me in for metal work. Im trying to work out a deal where I can get paid a commission on each project. If not i will continue my day time welding and fabrication job until i get customers and am starting to make money on the side.

 

seems like i don't really know how to work the forum right quite yet... Got some posts that make no sense.. beside the point..


dosswelding and camjeep

I agree. Ive been in shops and construction for about the past five years.
I am Interested in building some type of product to be able to sell to customers. Maybe along the lines of Fork Lift buckets, Farm Gates, Tables Maybe some CNC Work. All I got right now, as far as my business is an ahp200x a grinder and a work bench. Now I'm looking for the customer

A buddy of mine has a small Sign fabrication shop in ATL GA. 2 employees as of right now. Business is good. He said he's going to bring me in for metal work. Im trying to work out a deal where I can get paid a commission on each project. If not i will continue my day time welding and fabrication job until i get customers and am starting to make money on the side.